In today's episode, we dive deep into the concept of flow, that magical state where time seems to disappear and creativity flows effortlessly. We share our personal experiences with flow—what it looks like for us, and the unique ways we prepare for those moments. You’ll hear us discuss the importance of creating space in your life, whether that means blocking off time in your schedule or setting the right environment with candles and epic soundtracks.
We also explore the difference between being in flow and simply being focused, and how understanding your own strengths can help you find your flow more often. So, if you’ve ever wondered how to get into that sweet spot of productivity and creativity, this episode is packed with insights and practical tips to help you discover your own flow state. Get ready to embrace the freedom to flow! 🌟
📚 Further Reading:
Soar With Your Strengths by Dr. Don Clifton. Learn more about the Five Clues to Talent, including the topic of this podcast: Flow (also known as Total Performance Excellence).
Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Performance by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi
Deep Work: Rules for Focused Success in a Distracted World by Cal Newport
Additional Resource:
Monk Manual™ – This 90-Day Planner is a daily system that helps you focus on the most important things, so you can live each moment with greater purpose, productivity, and presence. Inspired by Monks. Backed by Science. Designed for you.
If you're looking to enhance your productivity and creativity, I highly recommend tuning in to this episode! Let's explore how we can all get into flow more often and make the most of our unique talents. 🎧 ✨
#Podcast #FlowState #Productivity #Creativity #Leadership #PersonalDevelopment
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Flow vs. Focus: There’s a difference between being in a flow state and simply being focused. Flow is characterized by effortless engagement and losing track of time, while focus can be more about forcing yourself to complete tasks.
Create Space for Flow: To get into flow, it's essential to create space. This could mean blocking off time for specific activities or ensuring you have a relaxed environment free from distractions.
Personalize Your Approach: Everyone experiences flow differently. Identify what works for you by reflecting on past moments of flow and recognizing the conditions that helped you get there. This could involve specific activities, environments, or even mental states.
Embrace Freedom: Finding flow often requires a sense of freedom. Maybe it's the freedom to let your mind wander, the freedom to eliminate distractions, or the freedom to color outside the lines and approach your work in a new, innovative way. Recognize what kind of freedom you need to tap into your flow state.
Leverage Your Strengths: Understanding your unique talents and strengths can help you create opportunities for flow. By aligning your activities with where you find natural yearning, learning, satisfaction, ease, and excellence (the five clues to talent), you will greatly enhance your chances of experiencing that effortless state.
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Identify Your Flow Moments: Reflect on past experiences where you felt completely immersed and lost track of time. Write down these moments and analyze what conditions or activities contributed to that flow state.
Create Space for Flow: Block off dedicated time in your schedule for activities that allow you to enter a flow state. This could involve clearing your calendar, finding a quiet space, or eliminating distractions.
Prepare for Flow: Before engaging in tasks that you anticipate will require flow, take time to prepare your environment. This could include setting the mood with lighting, music, or other elements that help you feel comfortable and focused.
Practice Presence: Work on being present in the moment by minimizing distractions and allowing your mind to settle. This can involve mindfulness techniques or simply taking a few moments to breathe and center yourself before starting a task.
Leverage Flow Experiences: After experiencing flow, take time to reflect on what worked well and how you can replicate that experience in the future. Consider creating a plan or a list of topics to explore during your next dedicated flow time.
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Lisa: Hey, I'm Lisa.
Brea: I'm Brea.
Lisa: And today's episode is all about how to get in flow.
Brea: How flow can you go?
Lisa: That's such a good question, where you're like, really, how much flow can I get? How often can I get it? I want it all the time.
Brea: All the time.
Lisa: Yeah. How often do you think you actually are truly in flow in a given week?
Brea: Not as much as I want, that's for sure. I mean, my flow comes when I'm on a stage with thousands of people around me. So that rarely ever happens. Yeah, thanks for being real. Not even once a week.
Lisa: Excellent for listeners to hear stuff like that because they think I'm not in it enough. I'm not doing it right or something is wrong with me, but really it is a unique state. Let's say it happens once every two weeks, once every month, and then it doesn't always hit you in the moment you can ride the wave. What do you do to try to give yourself space to actually get in the flow?
Brea: Yeah. Yeah. I think this is such an interesting question. So I think back to the times when there's an opportunity for me to go jam with some friends. I clear that night. I'm not back to back, you know, running from thing to thing and squishing that in like I might during the workday, you know? So it's just, it's an interesting thought experiment. Are there opportunities in my workday to approach it like the off hours instead of just crunching things back to back? Can I just clear some space and say, you know what, I'm just going to block off these several hours so that I have freedom to flow?
Lisa: Yeah. Ooh, yeah, freedom to flow is a key piece of how to get in flow. Let's just do the everyday work. What are things you do to get yourself closer to flow state when you really need to be in that energy or you would love to be in that energy of flow?
Brea: Yeah. Well, I think if I know that the upcoming task or meeting or opportunity, whatever is on the calendar, if I know that it's going to be a flow experience, I know that I'm excited for it. I know I'm going to enjoy it. that there's going to be excellence there in all the things, all the clues to talent, then I want to do whatever I can to prepare myself for that, to set myself up for excellence. So, you know, it's time blocking before and after to get all my ducks in a row. I'm a lot of a planner and also a lot of a go with the flow. I call this planning to be spontaneous. You know, like get all the things that I think I might need, create the environment. You know, maybe it's lighting a candle. Maybe it's turning on. I have an epic movie soundtrack playlist that is perfect for helping my brain focus because there are no words. And with communication, I get so distracted by words, you know, like that will take me to a totally different place of flow that I don't need to be if I'm editing a podcast, you know. No lyrics allowed. No lyrics allowed. But I need that energy. You know, I need the epic soundtrack is a lot different than classical music, which I love. Or I listen to Gregorian chant, you know, like I'm a weird Catholic homeschooler, you know, so those have their place. But the epic movie soundtrack is perfect for when I want to get into admin flow. But Lisa, I'm going to throw it back to you because I don't know that we define flow in the same way because even saying that out loud, I'm like, admin flow? Like it's just… The best that I can do is to light a candle, to open up the windows, let some fresh air in, but it's not real flow.
Lisa: Yes. It's almost like this segment where we're doing the side-by-side. We're kind of doing, fake flow isn't the greatest terminology, but it is kind of what it is. We're trying to borrow elements from real flow into things that we actually wouldn't get into true flow on. So yes, glad you acknowledge that. Okay. A friend of mine, Col Maggs, he's a fellow strengths coach. So shout out to Col.
Brea: Yeah. Hi Col.
Lisa: Yeah, he was thinking about how to get in flow versus how to get in focus are really different because you might have the ability to have focused energy on a task or many tasks and we Make ourselves get in that state because we need to get stuff done and that happens on the regular that probably happens Every day at least for a little smidge of time.
Yeah, but and that is an element of flow. I think you have to have focused energy inside of flow, but flow is more. It's that effortless, I lost track of time, often in a creative zone. And it's a wave that comes that you can really ride if you'll allow it. So yeah, you're very much a vibe scout, like with your candles and the things that you do in all your environments. That's cool. And I think for some people, it happens when they're journaling. For some people, it happens with morning pages. Sometimes it needs a little stream of consciousness to get some juices flowing at the beginning, but sometimes the brainstorm just starts dumping instantly. For me, I will do a little bit more like brainless tasks for the first 15 minutes to get into task mode, because that's not my favorite mode, and I kind of need to shift into that. So that's very different from other people who are like, eat that frog first or do the most important thing. Just get it right out of the way, straight up. I will just stare at my screen. So I will do warmup activities. I will also focus on what I don't do. So I love to be efficient. I think maximizer, strategic, I have a lot of talent themes that are very much into efficiency. So I'll try to cram in things like, ooh, I have five minutes slice of time. I'm going to leave messages for people. I'm going to have a podcast playing so that I can be learning on this next topic I'm working on. and I overcram my brain, it's kind of overstimulation. And that does not put me in an environment where I can be in that flow or fake flow. So I think that's a big one for me as well. It's what I'm not doing. But I think to switch gears off of fake flow, we should compare real flow. What is a flow state? What is this effortlessness? Where do you lose track of time? Let's go over to that side. What does that look like for you? How do you get into it? How do you come out of it? What does it feel like for you? How do you get into real flow?
Brea: Yeah, I wish you could see me. My whole body posture just changed. I'm smiling from ear to ear now. This idea of real flow is so good. This is one of the main reasons why I do strengths. Why we're talking about clues to talent, because if you can clue into your talent, then real flow is possible. It's the best. Isn't it the best? Yes. I forgot the question because I just was like so excited to talk about it. The thing about flow that I love the most is that when it's real, when it's authentic, when it's truly flow, it's not manipulated. It's not something you have to strive for. It happens. It's natural. You don't have to try to get into flow. It will just happen. And so I think it's important to think about how we can generate more opportunities for us to be in flow. I think that's a very important conversation. And also, it's important for us to be more intentionally aware of when this might be happening or when we might see glimpses of this happening in our everyday life so that we can get more of it because it is happening. Flow can happen when I'm editing a podcast. I get into that zone of communication and crafting the message and refining our communication in the recording and I can slip into that place
Lisa: Yeah, and I love that you brought that up. When you lose track of time, when you lose yourself, I can get into flow state easily when I'm making something. And that could be anything from songwriting to making a deck for a presentation. But if I'm making it and it's just a new thing that didn't exist before, Those are elements where I can really get into it. I also notice I can't force them very well I can tell when I'm making myself do the task or melt making myself put in practice and the difference in the days when I Am just like oh I could do this all day long I could do this for seven hours and not realize all that time has ticked by and I I don't know if you're as keenly aware when you're in it, but I tend to notice, oh, I was just in flow when it's over and I pull my head up and I'm like, whoa, six hours just went by. I was just in flow.
Brea: That's right. Yeah. I have to catch myself when I'm facilitating workshops. where I'm totally in flow. My energy is off the charts. There's so much adrenaline coursing through my veins to probably the point of being unhealthy, you know, for my body to sustain that much adrenaline for so long. But it feels so amazing. And because it is such a flow state for me, it's almost like the flow is taking over me. I kind of have to control the flow.
Lisa: I could see that because if you're doing something like you're in a workshop and you forgot you didn't give them a break for three hours and they just really need to go to the bathroom right now or you're not as tuned into them because you're so lost in the moment, you lost the timing that you wanted to use for a given number of exercises. I could see that being a thing. And also, I think there's something to the lead-in. At least for me, this is very important. Even though I may not know that I'm about to get in flow, I can't say for sure it's about to happen because it's a whole orchestration of things. So even though the episode is about how to get in flow, there are probably nuances to it for me that are more like how to set yourself up for the opportunity for it to happen. Because some days it just doesn't happen. But for example, if I'm going in to lead a retreat for strengths with a group, I need to make sure there's adequate time blocked off before and after that everything is prepared and settled that I don't feel frazzled in any way about the logistics or where to show up and I mean this could be something as tactical as driving by the venue the night before so that I've laid my eyes on it and I know what building I'm headed toward Those are things I do to make sure I can be in the right state of mind for them and be of total service to them the next day. And then the day of, getting up an extra hour early so that I can have some intentions and just get myself in the space. How, how do I want to show up for them? What environment do I want to create? What do I, what are my hopes for them and what they'll experience? And just really getting my mind oriented to how I can be of service to them instead of hurry up, hurry up, hurry up. Oops, room service didn't show up. Oh, I'm running late. Oh, the Uber didn't come. You know, those kinds of things are, bound to harsher flow, make that thing not happen as easily or naturally or might even block it. So I think in the notion of how to get in flow for me, it's a lot about how did you set yourself up for the opportunity for it to happen and then you can't force it to happen. It may or may not.
Brea: Yeah, I think it's so, it's just so fun to listen to you describe your flow and it's different than mine and it's different for the listeners based on our talents, right? I can be a planner too in certain situations, but that usually doesn't feel like the flow. It's like I'm preparing for the flow. But I think that's so key. And again, why we're talking about all of these clues to talent is because if you can think about your talents and how do they get into flow, That's really what you need to do. You know, listen to us. That's fine. Thank you. Thank you for listening. But I hope that you take these a step further. And instead of just trying to replicate what works for us, think about what works for you through your talents.
Lisa: Yeah. And if I add on to what you said, I think that there's a key element of how to get in flow and the moment when you're actually trying to get in it right now. And I think that is presence. And I say that to bring up a contrast between you and me. So I think I have fewer talent themes that put me easily in presence, the right here, right now with people. I mean, you lead through connectedness and things that are that is what they are. They're here, they're in the moment with the person. So I have a lot of thinking themes that are thinking about thinking and about where we're headed and how to make that happen. And I can really be in my logic brain And that is not flow. I am not in flow when I'm in my logic brain. And I have to do that planning stuff I was talking about in order to put myself in an environment so I can then release it, let that go, and be there with them. And then I can turn on things like individualization and say, ooh, I'm curious about you. Let's talk about how this one applies to you. And I can ask them really pointed questions about what's going on based on things they just said in the moment. But my brain won't go there. It won't let go of the logic stuff if I haven't prepared myself so that it can settle down and hang out in the background. So I think that's another element. I don't know how that strikes you, but for me, my talents aren't as present. And I think those make me fight to get into flow.
Brea: Yeah, that's so… Actually, I think it's really… I'm really self-aware and really insightful. Insight. Insightful insight.
Lisa: Like, okay, have you ever read Deep Work from Cal Newport? I don't think I have, no.
Brea: I don't think I have.
Lisa: Okay, so he doesn't specifically talk about it as flow, but it is pretty much that topic. But he goes really extreme and he talks about this thing that He calls it, I believe he calls it monastic work, literally like monastery or monk kind of work, where he is gone from the world. It is like, I am in my zone and it has boundaries and you can't get in. I'm doing my monk work today for the next eight hours. That is so difficult for me to imagine being gone. He talks about it long-term. weeks at a time or more. I can block out a day and I do do that. For example, if I need to create something for an event, I will block an entire day so that I don't have to get on calls that interrupt it because that will totally interrupt my flow and just jolt me right out of it and I can't get back. The only thing I'm going to be that day is a thinker or a tactical person. It's not going to be like the flowing creative. And so I can take little moments like that and the moments might be a full day, but I think that feels so indulgent for so many professionals. to read a book like that and think, oh yes, I'm going to be monastic for a week or a month at a time. Well, what does that mean? Quitting my job? I mean, those things feel so out of reach to so many people if they don't have a life they've already crafted around all of this. So that's why I like talking about- That is so interesting. Yeah, things like, for me, I just need to figure out how to allow myself to be present for that day, not for taking off an entire month.
Brea: Well, this is so my connectedness is connecting. So I. I love what you were saying, Lisa, about your experience. You have to kind of eliminate the obstacles or get rid of the distractions or allow your logic brain to move through what it needs to move through so that you feel more free to be in flow in the present moment. And when I think about what I know about true monasticism and monks, and I have some experience, with monks. I went to a small Catholic liberal arts school where there were monks living on campus and teaching us and their monasteries on campus. They didn't live. Yeah. Anyways, so like the thing is, is that it's not a retreat. It's not like I'm going to go away for a week or two weeks and focus on this thing. The real beauty of the flow that I've observed in them is it's 24-7. There's like this interior place of freedom that allows them to kind of stay in flow no matter what they're doing. So it's not like you have to sustain the flow, you know, for an eight hour work day or a week or two weeks. You know, it's it's like when they're gardening, when they're praying, when they're, you know, like walking, they're just kind of always plugged in.
Lisa: Yes. That's what I mean by that presence thing. Yes.
Brea: Yeah. So I really think it's good to ruminate on this idea of like real flow can't be created, can't be grasped for. We can do our best to create an environment where it's likely to happen. We can look at times where it's happened in the past for us and try to recreate opportunities that are similar. But I think that there's something about staying plugged into the truth of who we are and how we operate at our best, staying in that place, you know, no matter what we're doing instead of What we've learned to do in life is to do it like other people, you know, to look at how someone else has been successful and let me try to replicate what other people have done instead of just being really calm and, and steady in our own operating system, you know, and in our own, our own talents and our own strengths and leading with that. Maybe I'm over philosophizing, but that's where I am.
Lisa: That's good. And if you just want to twist a little bit of practicality in there, I think that as we kind of close it up and imagine someone listening and wanting to apply this in their lives and get into that experience a little more often, You can think of it like a remembering, where these moments of total immersion, just think back, close your eyes, take those moments. Where were you totally immersed? Where did you absolutely lose track of time last time? Where did you have just full energy, but you didn't have to generate it, it was just there, or it was being generated by the activity you were in? remember those things because there might only be a couple of them in your life that pop up in your mind like you might have just come up with one memory and that one memory might not even be related to something you could apply to work or your everyday life where you're in here listening to how to get into flow and you're like yeah I want to get into flow for work but uh what I personally just thought of going through that exercise was hiking So how does that help me? And then it just takes you through that process. What is it about hiking? What could I learn from that? What can I apply to that? And then keep asking the question and get two or three examples and find the trends in those and you'll start to find things you can apply to your workday and you can apply to other elements of your life that you're trying to get into flow for.
Brea: Yeah, it's so good. It makes me think of I still maybe am a little bit stuck on what you were talking about earlier, the obstacles to flow. And I wonder if sometimes, well, I'm thinking of someone that I know who was just always late. to everything. And it was because as he was walking from place to place, he would see people that he wanted to talk to. And so he would talk to them. And then the five minutes that he had to walk from where he started to where he was supposed to end up turned into 30 minutes. You know, I mean, he was always really late to where he was going. And so there was an obstacle, but the obstacle was coming from his place of flow or his place of talent, right? He was in flow when he was moving. He's definitely a mover. He always likes to be going. So the, I think the physical action of walking was, was warming him up, you know, or like getting him into that flow state. And bumping into people as he's walking across the campus, it was his talents that were the obstacles to him getting to the place that he needed to go and being on time because that was not his talent, right? So the flow was actually like getting in the way of what he actually needed to be doing. And so he started building in buffers. He said, OK, look, if it usually takes me 30 minutes to walk a five minute route, then I just I'm just going to set that time aside. And so I hope that's helpful for people as you listen and you think about how this applies to you. Where are your talents helpful for getting you into flow? Or what do your talents need to be in flow? And also like How do you create the time, create the space for that? And then we didn't really talk a lot about getting out of flow, but that's another thing to consider. Like we're thinking of flow like water in a hose, for instance, right? We talked about turning it on, letting the flow kind of build up, then you're in full flow, then you turn it off. And after you turn it off, there still is that amount of water in the hose, right? What if the thing that you're planning after you've been in flow, what if there's a hard stop? You have a meeting coming up and so you gotta get out of flow real quick. So you turn off the hose. There still is gonna be a little bit of that flow left. How do you maximize that or optimize that or leverage that going into your next thing? I think those practical applications help us to get closer to that monastic experience of like staying in flow all the time, you know, that he was talking about. If we can see how there are not just these moments of flow, but also how the moments can flow into each other. I mean, that's the goal.
Lisa: Giving me a personal insight on this one, it made me think about how when I am flying, I do have flow state relatively often when I am on a plane. And I think it's because the Wi-Fi is so bad, I just give up on trying to get something done that is digital when I'm on a plane. So I bring blank sheets of printer paper and it becomes mind wander, brainstorm, strategize. It just flows. Oh look, we're landing. We'll get the touchdown and then I'll fold it up and put it in my backpack and the next time I fly, I'll pull that out and I'll be like, oh yeah, I remember that thread. That was going to be really good. But I literally just fold it in half, put it back in there, and that's where it goes to die because I didn't have it planned out. What I could do with the ideas or with the momentum, and that would be easy enough. I would just need to block some extra time anticipating that this happens often, and I don't. So thank you for that insight because it would be leveraging the flow that already happened if I would just give it a little time for those ideas to get closed out on.
Brea: And also going back to what the question that we asked earlier is, you know, when was the last time you were in flow? So now that you're thinking about that, you can say, oh, wow, like I get into flow when I don't have the distractions of Wi-Fi or all the other things that are normally around me. I have this time, I have this space. So can you create that time and space? When you're not on a plane, would it be helpful to you to be like, I'm going to go somewhere and pretend like I'm on a plane, you know, and just pull out these white sheets of paper? Like, do you think it would be the same? What do you think?
Lisa: I think it might be better. I could say, OK, what's a typical flight? Two and a half hours. Instead, go to a beautiful park bench in nature where I also don't know people that I can talk to. because that's where I would get distracted. I think that would be a better environment. I don't love the act of flying outside of the mental stuff that goes on when I have the space. So yeah, I do. I think I could leave the phone in the car and replicate it Yeah, brilliant. What a great way to make it practical and say, Oh, look, you remembered how you get into it. So how else could you create that in your life in a different environment? And heck, I think just guessing because I haven't tried it, but I actually think it would be better.
Brea: Yeah. So then to go one step further, let's say you did do that. You blocked off two and a half hours and you go to the park and you, you sit on the beautiful park bench. What would you use that time for? What would be the best use of that time?
Lisa: I think I would get the most out of it and it would be the most fruitful if I thought of something the day before because it has to be really relevant to what is going on and I just give myself a mental direction for what the printer paper and my pen and my brain are conspiring to do and I just get that topic and before I would go to sleep the night before I would make sure I have that topic in mind and then when I show up that's it because I don't give myself parameters like that before I get on the plane outside of a topic area or direction and I just let it flow. If you know you're hanging out there and if it's not coming I would be perfectly content sitting on my park bench looking at birds for a bit until something plops in because I know I don't give myself enough white space for my brain to have that free time, and that's what the magic of the plane is for me. I would just know it's okay if I haven't done planning beyond that. That's really all that would be required to replicate the experience. And then when I'm in it, just having the patience to be present and let it come or not come or come 10 minutes later.
Brea: Yeah. Thanks for sharing that, Lisa. What I'm hearing as the thread throughout this conversation is freedom. For you, it might be the freedom to not do things that you would normally do, right? To not pack your schedule, to eliminate different things, to create that white space for your brain. For me, it's the opposite. It's what can I do to create the space, like lighting a candle, opening up the windows, setting the vibes. So for our listeners, what kind of freedom do you need to find that flow?
Lisa: Beautiful. So this is great, because this leads to the call to action of working with Brea as a coach, because this, to me, feels exactly like what it would be like. Bria coaching me right now, asking me the questions, taking me through. I think it's a great trial experience. They get to hear someone thinking through. And just a shout out to another friend of the show, Ricardo, since he recently put our names together, Lisa and Bria, and made Libre, and said, that means free.
Brea: Perfect. Thank you, Ricardo. Libre. I love it. We've got our celebrity couple name. Look at us. That's right. Well, Lisa, you so generously told everyone how they can work with me by going to my website, BreaRoper.com, and scheduling a call. How can they work with you?
Lisa: LeadThroughStrengths.com. Go to Get Coached in the main menu, and we can step through any of these kind of exercises, conversations, and focus on the strategy of how to get in flow for you based on your strengths, your preferences.
Brea: Well, I guess that's Libre signing off for this week's episode.
Lisa: Go be free! Free bird! I love it. See y'all later.
“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS
BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness
If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today!
LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo
To work with Lisa, check out team workshops and retreats at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the Get Coached link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our Tools for Coaches membership.
The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.