Brea Roper
Ep. 180 - Should I List Prices On My Coaching ...
Brea Roper
Ep. 179 - Pricing Your Services As a Coach or ...
Brea Roper
Ep. 178 - Battling Money Blocks as a Business ...
Brea Roper
Ep. 177 - Being a Good Boss To Yourself as an ...
Brea Roper
Ep. 176 - Are You A Bad Boss To Yourself?

Ep. 183 - A Few of Our Favorite Strengths Things (Season 10 Wrap)

In this special Season Finale, we’re closing out Season 10 with a fun, reflective conversation inspired by a few of our favorite things. As we take a short pause from the podcast, we share some of our favorite strengths-based questions, hands-on tools, and learning approaches that actually stick. This episode is full of ideas you can use right away, whether you’re a coach, leader, or strengths enthusiast.

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p.s. - as we wrap Season 10, the podcast is taking a short pause—but we’re still here and would love to stay connected. Reach out, explore the resources we shared, and keep strengths flowing while we’re away!

    • Turn existing team themes into Strengths conversations
      You don’t need a brand-new initiative to apply strengths. Take whatever theme your organization is already focused on—innovation, change readiness, bravery—and ask how each person’s strengths help them show up in that area. This simple shift creates deeper, more engaging conversations.

    • Start with the individual, not the Team Grid
      Team grids can be interesting, but they’re not the magic. The real power comes from individuals knowing, owning, and intentionally using their strengths. A well-balanced grid doesn’t matter if people aren’t actually applying their talents.

    • Less can be more when learning Strengths
       Focusing on just one strength at a time helps people learn faster and apply more confidently. Exploring domains, execution, and collaboration through a single theme makes strengths development feel accessible instead of overwhelming.

    • Engagement increases when learning is tactile
      Using tools like strengths card decks adds a physical, interactive element that draws people into the conversation. When participants can touch, move, and discuss strengths together, learning goes deeper and lasts longer.

    • Try a Strengths Lens QuestionTake a theme your team is already talking about and ask: How do my strengths help me with this? Start with a short reflection or discussion and notice how the conversation shifts.

    • Choose One Strength to Focus OnPick one theme from your Top 5 and pay attention to how it shows up at work and in life. Name it, notice it, and practice using it with intention.

    • Experiment with a New Strengths ToolIf you facilitate strengths conversations, try incorporating a card deck or prompt-based activity to create more engagement and deeper dialogue.

    • The CS Strengths Deck from StrengthsPlayground is a versatile, hands-on tool for strengths conversations, prompts, and exploration.

  • Lisa: I'm Lisa. 

    Brea: I'm Brea. 

    Lisa: and we are here in our moment to close out season 10. Brea, it's a wrap.

    Brea: It's a wrap, and not a delicious spinach wrap or a tomato basil wrap, but wrap like we're just gonna take a pause, take a break. Yeah.

    Lisa: So as a listener, you're going to hear a pause for a minute, and we thought we could wrap up the season and do a little bit of a favorite thing style.


    Brea: These are a few of my favorite things.

    Lisa: Oh, that is such a perfect cue up for just the things that I adore, the best things. So we can talk about the best things in the strengths world. Oh, good setup. Good melody. Brea, yay. 

    Let's talk. Let's do just a best question, a favorite question, a question you love in that and when I say question, it can be a prompt question, a reflection, something that gets a great conversation going on the topic of strengths. Do you want to start? Or do you want me to start?

    Brea: Go for it. 

    Lisa: Oh, okay. I love working with a team and getting a theme, because teams always have a thing, you know, they always have an initiative or a word or something that they're trying to get everyone to think about often. It could be something simple, like, oh, everyone is talking innovation. We want to be more innovative. It's our theme for the year. Or maybe they have a big change, and it's about being, change, ready. Change ready. Change ready. And it's the thing they're hearing all over the place, or something like, you know, the team has been talking about how to be brave during some difficult situation. So it's taking any theme and then using it with a lens of strengths to have a conversation. So if you took innovation, it would be like, how do your strengths help you be innovative? How do your strengths help you feel change ready? Or, how do your strengths allow you to feel brave, like you could take any of those examples and just turn it into a Strengths question, and it is amazing how well it goes over. And it's just really simple. It's taking something that the organization or the team is already trying to do, that bang, that drum, over and over and over again, and trying to get people to think. But because the strengths lens is so different from what, where they're usually thinking, it brings it into a whole different conversation. So I love that approach.

    Brea: Yes, I love it. I mean, it's really the core of strength application, right? I mean, that's what it's all about, is looking at things through your particular unique lens of strengths, and that's where your superpower lies. You know? Why don't we do it more? I know we just don't. We don't. So what a practice to to engage in?

    Lisa: Yeah, nice when it's simple and easy, also, like it's really easy to come up with questions like that based on what's already relevant. So a lot of times what's simple can be a lot of mental effort, but that doesn't take much to come up with this question, these kind of questions,

    Brea: I love it. I love it. Anyone can do it. And the beauty is, each individual person knows their own strengths the best if they don't have all of the knowledge that an expert would have, they still can, can ask those questions of themselves, and that exploration is really where the learning and the discovery happens. And that's the most important thing, not that you have all the right textbook answers, but that you're using your strengths and applying them with intention. So that's perfect.

    Lisa: You're so right. That's so well said. That's perfect. That's what this is all about, is getting somebody to explore their own and remember that they have the superpower that they could aim at this thing, and they just hadn't been thinking about it like that. Yeah.

    Brea: You know, it reminds me of a lot of times when I'm invited to do a workshop or an activity with a team. They want to do all the things, you know, they ask for the moon, and I'm like, Okay, well, maybe we start with this grain of sand. You know, it's always, always difficult to try to manage expectations, but one of the things that people want is Team grids. They want to look at the team grid. They want to see where the talents lie, where the gaps are, where they should hire to fill gaps. You know, all these well intentioned thoughts about how to apply strengths, but what people forget is that it's not the talents that show up on the team grid. It's. The squares that are filled and not filled, that gives us the most incredible data, because the talent that's shown is actually a person, and if the person that's represented on the grid is not aware of their talents, if they don't know what their talents are, and use them with intention, then it doesn't matter what the grid shows, right? Yeah, people get so hung up on what, what does our grid look like, and what do we need to do to get a well represented grid when actually the data shows and common sense tells us, start with your people. Make sure that the talent that shows up on the grid is actually being well used, that people know what their strengths are and how to use them, and that's what makes a strong team. So that's where you start. You start with the individual

    Lisa: that would be an interesting activity there, looking at your grit, looking at your own and saying, if these represent my instincts and preferences in, what areas Am I not allowing those to come out in a productive way?

    Brea: Yeah, I just was having a conversation with a leader yesterday. He's in a regional management position and and I asked him to focus on empathy, so he had one talent to focus on in between our meetings. That was his homework, was to just kind of pay attention. Name it, claim it, aim it when you can, but just tell me where, where did it show up for you? Where did you notice it? Where was it helpful? Where was it not helpful? And he started off immediately saying, well, it doesn't really come up at work. I think it only works in my personal relationships. And then he gave me, like, a million examples of how he saw it at home. And so, of course, you know, the coach and me circles back around and like, okay, let's talk about work. Like you said, it doesn't really show up. This is what I heard. I heard that it actually was showing up a lot. He just didn't recognize it, and there weren't opportunities for him to use it, to lead with it, to be intentional about it. So how it was showing up at work, he was either subconsciously blocking because it wasn't valued at work. So he had to kind of shut it down, you know, or there just weren't a lot of opportunities for it to really take the lead and be valuable. It was just more responsive. Like empathy is, you know, it's very receptive in nature. So that's that was kind of coming up, but he didn't really see it as useful at work. So how many times are our talents wanting to show up, wanting to be used with intention, but either we or someone else is shutting it down or blocking it out and not allowing it to contribute in the way that it can, which hopefully will add value, not only to the team or the outcome, but also just to our lives.

    Lisa: Yes, I love that. I think you've also mentioned this little snippet right there about one thing. You had them focus on one thing. And I think you've told me before about an exercise where you really have done a lot of things in your work where you get people to focus on one talent theme. Can you say a little bit more about an exercise you like in a team environment

    Brea: Yes. Okay, so this is something that I do. It's a little different than most people. Actually. I've never heard of someone else doing this when I'm doing workshops, when I'm doing intro workshops, especially instead of starting with the full 34 or even the top five, it's just a lot. It's a lot of information in short amount of time. It's a lot of bowling balls for people to hold, right? So I just say, look, let's pick one theme. Pick your number one. Pick you know, any of your top five that you want to focus on, and focus on that theme today and as we go through the whole workshop, or as we are in our coaching session or whatever, it's just so much easier to learn the concepts of let's take domains. For example, just because you don't have any executing themes Brea doesn't mean that you can't get things done, right? You just use your other themes to do it, like we can talk in concept, but so much easier to be like, okay, look, communication. You're number one. It's an influencing theme. How do you use your communication to execute? Boom, right? That's so much easier to understand when you're thinking through one theme throughout the day, and you get to explore it in all the different concepts of strengths learning and strengths development. So I think less is more 100% when we're learning new things, and the positive feedback that I get from clients is we loved just having one thing to focus on. Learning and doing different exercises and activities around that one theme,

    Lisa: Bold move. I love also how it's clear, it's simple. And also, if they say, okay, and I have these other ones now, how do we incorporate the other? Incorporate the other ones? You have the opportunity for reinforcement and keep the relationship going, and to help them not make it the flavor of the year, the flavor of the month, thing that happened, and then they go home and forget about it.

    Brea: Yeah, well, and that's the beauty, is that when you know, when we're in a workshop, everybody's choosing their own theme, but we're covering a lot of ground. We're still talking about all the things that we would talk about in an intro workshop. We're learning all the things that we would learn. We're just thinking about it through one lens, so at the end of the workshop, they can go back to their other top four and do all of the same exercises that we did at the workshop, just through their other themes, like I've given them everything they need, and they understand it because they've actually done the work through the lens of one theme. So they've put it into practice. Now they can go and apply it on their own with the other themes. No problem. You know, right?

    Lisa: Yeah, you're equipping them with the tools to now have, yes, much richer conversations.

    Brea: I love it. What about you? What? What's a secret sauce or a favorite thing or something that goes over really well when you're working with groups.

    Lisa: So a favorite thing I have lately is using the CS strengths decks. So the for those of you who've never seen this or heard of it, Nick and call over at strengths playground.com they have these strengths decks. I buy multiples of these, and there are prompt cards, and there are talent cards. And I love these for many reasons, because you can use them in 100 ways. I mean, it is so easy to be creative with them, because you can go down blind spots. You can go down bright spots. You can do the great side of a talent. You can do the shadow side of a talent. The way that people get to have this tactile element while they're having conversation, it's just so incredible to watch what happens in the room, the way that people process them. They're pretty simple, the definitions on the cards, but because the prompts become central, and then the conversations that riff off of it, and then how they use their talents to describe I feel like it creates an environment where you have to break it up. It's one of those exercises that it almost always feels like you're stopping it early on people, because they're just so into touching the cards, having the conversation, hearing someone else, moving it around, flipping them over. And they're so into it because of the way it's engaging them. It's it's just such a great tool. Because of that, I've been loving it because I just, I love exercises where you're like, I'm going to have to break in and be the person who transitions it, versus half the group's done and half the group's not, and you're trying to play out when to move on and when to not. And this is one where they could just talk infinitely, and the cards must make it so easy for them to be in that mode, because it happens every time, no matter how I use the cards.

    Brea: That's amazing, awesome. Love that. Shout out. Shout out to the guys over at strengths playground. Go check it out. We'll put the link in the show notes so you can have an easy access to go buy your own decks.

    Lisa: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Well, hey, as we're wrapping up the wrap up, and we want to make sure that we're on pause, but we're not paused in terms of interacting with listeners. Let's keep the conversations and or strengths learning flowing for people while we're paused.

    Brea: Yes, okay, so we're wrapping season 10. We're taking a pause from the podcast, but we're not pausing our businesses. So you can find me at Brea roper.com you can find me on email Hello at Brea roper.com or the strengths hub.com you can come and join me and other coaches there. How about you, Lisa,

    Lisa: I definitely say connect with me on LinkedIn, if you're not already lead through strengths.com, and then come to if you're a coach, come to tools for coaches. It's definitely a Strengths community hangout. Focus on your business kind of place. If you are a coach leading things, if you're a team leading things, then definitely stay connected on LinkedIn or go over in the top navigation of my site. I also have a link called 34 strengths, and there's so much it leads to so many pages and resources. It would be a great start to use to dig in with your team to take things further while you're. Are waiting for more free resources to come your way. Awesome.

    Brea: And if you want to do business together, I would love to come to you. So I'm definitely still in the travel phase of my business. So if you need need someone to come on site do a Keynote or workshop, I would love not only to stay in touch, but to come your way. Feel free to reach out, and we can make that happen.

    Lisa: I bet you could even get Brea to sing that in her version of a few of my favorite things. 

    Brea: These are a few of my favorite things. Like gosh, I love it so much. Maybe we might even do a little dance, you know, like sound of music. I just kind of love it. I kind of love it.

    Lisa: I can tell it'd be easy to go do into that. Is that the same one with an umbrella? Okay, I'm imagining her being in Switzerland with an umbrella, is that the same musical, or is this a different one?

    Brea: I'm literally going through like, every scene in my head right now, like a view finder, like, click, click, click. I don't see any umbrellas. No, that's Mary Poppins, maybe that you're thinking of, also played by Julie Andrews, the iconic Julie Andrews,

    Lisa: I don't know what I'm missing. Last one I saw was the teen or Tina Turner musical and a beautiful noise with Neil Diamond

    Brea: icon, icon, yeah. Okay. Sound of Music. If you love sound of music, sound of music as much as I do, please. Let's be friends. Come find me. Let's be friends.

    Lisa: All right, everyone, well, we'll see you around. We adore you. Keep strengths flowing, and we'll see you until next time,

    Brea: until next time. Adios.

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 182 - Tech Stack for Coaches

In this episode, we dive into the often-overwhelming world of building a tech stack for your coaching business! We know the thought of sorting through all the technology options can make your eyes glaze over, but fear not! We break it down into manageable pieces, discussing everything from accounting software to payment processors, calendaring systems, and even email marketing tools. Adding tech to your process should save you time and money, not cause you headaches and cost you cash. Our goal is to help you streamline your processes so you can focus on what you do best – coaching!

🎧 Are you ready to take your coaching business to the next level? Listen in as we share our personal experiences with different tools and provide recommendations that can help you build a solid tech foundation for a thriving coaching practice.

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    • Define the Role of Your Tech Stack: Before diving into the myriad of tools available, it's crucial to understand the specific roles each piece of technology will play in your business. By treating your tech stack like a team of employees, you can make informed decisions that align with your business goals. This approach helps to reduce overwhelm and ensures that each tool serves a clear purpose.

    • Streamline Your Processes: Adding tech to your process should save you time and money, not cause you headaches and cost you cash. That’s why integrating tech can have a great impact! For example, choosing a calendaring system that connects to your payment processor allows clients to pay at the time of booking. This not only eliminates the hassle of chasing payments later, but also enhances the customer experience by making it easy for them to do business with you.

    • Choose the Right Tools for Your Needs: Select tools that fit your current business stage. If you're just starting out, a simple spreadsheet might suffice for managing client relationships instead of investing in a complex CRM system. Remember, the goal is to make the tools work for you, and only pay for what you need. Choose tools that will genuinely save you time and effort.

    • Evaluate Your Tech Needs: Reflect on the specific jobs your tech stack needs to accomplish in your coaching business, such as marketing, sales, or delivery of services. This will help you make informed decisions about which tools to invest in.

    • Choose a Payment Processor: Set up a payment processor (we recommend Stripe) to streamline your payment collection process. Ensure it integrates with your scheduling system to allow clients to pay when they book appointments.

    • Implement an Online Scheduling System: Tools like Calendly, TidyCal can manage your appointment setting, communications, and follow-ups efficiently. Book Like A Boss is a powerful all-in-one that also allows you to build landing pages, sell digital products, and more!

    • Explore Email Marketing Options: If your current tools (like your website or scheduling app) can handle your email needs, keep it simple. But if you need a dedicated email marketing platform, consider options like Flodesk, Emma, or Kit (formerly known as ConvertKit).

    • Our other shoutouts:

  • Lisa: I'm Lisa. 

    Brea: I'm Brea. 

    Lisa: And today we are talking about the tech stack in your coaching business.

    Brea: Yes. Okay, so before people's eyes glaze over when we talk about all the tech and all the details, this is such a good topic because we need it. You need to get these systems and these processes in place in order to be more free to do what you do best, you know? So I'm so excited to talk about this. I've learned so many things the hard way.

    Lisa: Now you are making me think of a song because Tech Stack makes me think of nerdy. So I'm thinking of like the band Devo wearing those nerdy hats and the song Whip It. Like you got to whip yourself into shape. Shape it up. Like, yeah. Whip it good. Yeah, that's totally it. And you said freedom and that I think that album was called Freedom of Choice. So it is all coming up with the nerdery right there.

    Brea: That is so funny. I don't think I've ever heard that song in its entirety, but I recognize it from a movie with Kate Hudson. I don't remember which one, some rom-com, probably with her and Matthew McConaughey, but there's a scene where they're dancing to it. So I understand the reference. I get it. Okay. Okay.

    Lisa: Well, it'll make it a little more fun. Let's do it. Let's do it. Now we move into the exciting topic of things like accounting software.

    Brea: Yes. So we don't need to define this, okay? But I do want to just like set a little foundation. I think when we talk tech, when we talk systems, processes, things like this, it's important, at least for me, it's important to remember what is the job of the tech stack, the thing in the stack, right? What is the job that I'm trying to accomplish? Is it marketing? Is it sales? Is it delivery of your product or your service? Is it scaling? Is it, you know, what is the job that you're trying to give it. So I like to think of them almost as, you know, an employee or a contractor. Like, what's the role? And then that helps me to make the decisions instead of just being totally overwhelmed with all the details of the specificity of things. You know, hopefully that might help.

    Lisa: I agree. I think it's good decision criteria too because a lot of people talk about getting subscription fatigue because most of these are recurring subscriptions. Then if you look at it as a contractor and you say, if I paid a person to do this manually, what would that look like in the business? How would the cost compare? How would the service compare? How would the results compare? And sometimes you could have a human doing these things. examples, like if we start with accounting, you can, if you have five customers for the year when you're starting off and it's a side hustle and you don't really have much business, unless you just want to learn the software, you could use a spreadsheet and just give it to your accountant. So you could use something you're already paying for, like your Google Workspace or whatever you're using where you would have a spreadsheet available to you. So there are times when you could do the on the cheap version or use a human version until you get into the recurring software.

    Brea: Yeah, I love it.

    Lisa: What do you use for accounting?

    Brea: Oh gosh, do we have to start with accounting? We'll just get it over with, you know. Well, in the tenure of my business, is that the right word? I've used spreadsheets, okay, so been there, done that, and if that's you, no judgment. I use QuickBooks, QuickBooks Online, yeah, because that's what my accountant uses, so. Okay, me too. I don't do accounting. I pay someone to do that for me.

    Lisa: Okay. Me too. I use QuickBooks online. Some people use Xero. Some people use FreshBooks. There are other things out there, but QuickBooks, at least in the US, that seems to be what accountants prefer. You could just give them access. They get access to the back end of it. It makes life pretty clean and clear and simple.

    Brea: Yeah, I actually really love using Stripe for my payment processor, which is not the accounting software, but adjacent.

    Lisa: Yeah, let's get into payment processing. So, okay, you use Stripe. I also use Stripe. I think Most small business owners starting up training, coaching, speaking businesses, you'll probably want to go over and have a Stripe account because it integrates with just about every software. So if you're like, what in the world is a payment processor? What are you guys talking about? It's essentially somebody takes a few percentage points and it allows you to accept credit cards and have that money electronically delivered to your business bank account. Kind of easy way to say it. And Stripe connects to, like, if you find any software out there that allows you to sell through it, like a very good example is your calendaring system. If you're a coach, especially a one-on-one coach, you really want a calendar system that allows you to accept payment as they book. Because then you don't have to spend a lot of your delivery hours chasing payments. They just pay when they book. So those will often be, we can talk about the calendaring systems next, but payment processor, if you have Stripe, for example, connected to your calendaring system, now you're done.

    Brea: Yeah, that's right. You know, I think Stripe is quickly becoming kind of a gold standard. It integrates with anything that I've tried to integrate it with. It allows me to take Apple Pay and Google Pay and credit cards and debit cards and ACH. And there are so many international currencies that it processes. I mean, there's so much you can do. The thing that I love most about Stripe and probably the feature that I use most is the ability to create payment links. So when I don't want to do a full invoice, I just want to take a credit card really fast, I can do that. I can create a custom link for a custom amount and send it to someone and then boom, it's done. You can also use the payment links on your website or other places where you want to have a button for people to click. You know, they click the button and then boom, it goes straight to the payment page and you know, it's done. Yeah. Right on. But other payment processors would be like PayPal or Square or Venmo or Zelle or that's what we're talking about. Yes.

    Lisa: Yes, yes. Okay. Let's talk about calendaring because if you are a one-on-one coach, really, you've got to be able to accept payments as you book. It's just, it just makes financial sense to have someone pay when you book. Yes, yes, yes. Just do it. And if you don't believe me now, when you're fully booked, you'll believe me and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm chasing payments. I did not want to be a collector. Okay, so that's one element of calendaring. If you're a speaker or a trainer, you want your calendaring or a one-on-one coach for things like discovery calls, prospect calls. Pre-event calls, things like that. You really want an online calendaring system. Some people use a VA or a personal assistant to do their calendaring, and some people do prefer that. But they are so sophisticated now. I mean, you can tell it, I take these kind of calls on this day of the week. And only from this hour to this hour, but on this kind of call, I take them on this day of the week. It's really cool what they do. So any thoughts on calendaring before we talk about which technologies we use?

    Brea: Yeah, I mean, I agree. If you are not Not that you have to always sync up your payment with scheduling, but if you haven't done that at all, you know, if you're not taking advantage of that, it's such a great way to make it easy for the customer and easy for you. So when I think of tech stack, any tech stacks, it's always how can I improve this process for the customer? How can I make it easy for them to do business with me and easy for them to pay me? It's just the worst when you've done all the work to get the sale and then they can't find the cash register anywhere. It happens so many times on your website or whatever. Go here to schedule, and then go here to pay, and then go here to do this, and go here to do that. And it's just make it easy. Just do it all, all together. I think that's so, so good.

    Lisa: I mean, have you ever gone to a store? This is what you're making me think of. You Can't Find the Cash Register made me think of when you have an item in your hand, and then you see, oh my gosh, the line is so long at the register. That's going to take 45 minutes. That barrier is too high. And that is the same thing as when They have to go back and forth with you or your human, even if you have a personal assistant, that might seem cool. But what if they have to go back and forth 6 times to find a time that works versus being able to click? So I feel like that's sending them into that line with 45-minute wait to check out.

    Brea: I love it. Yep, I love it.

    Lisa: All right, what do you use today?

    Brea: So I still use Calendly. I've used Calendly almost the entire time that I've been in business. Every now and then, go check something else out to see, you know, can I get rid of this, whatever it is, $12, $13 a month? Like, can I get rid of that? Because TidyCal is $20 one time or, you know, for a lifetime or something like that. But I always come back to Calendly. It just has improved so much and has a lot of those opportunities to customize like what you were saying. It does everything, even like group events now. It's not just the one on one. They have grown into being able to schedule a workshop. If I wanted to do a public workshop, people can go in and buy one seat. So, really, there's nothing that I need that it doesn't do. So, I'm a Calendly girl. How about you?

    Lisa: Awesome. They keep stepping their game up. I was a Calendly girl for most of the years of my business. I currently use TidyCal. And I've used Acuity. Acuity was my first one and it's very solid. And I think as far as integrations, Calendly integrates with the most other software, so it can make your life much simpler that way. But I've been really happy with TidyCal as well. So I would say any of the three of those are great. And there are several more that are absolutely solid as well. Just get one. Get one that integrates with the software that you use. get one that accepts payments, but you're right. I love to experiment with one-time fee software, and if you're not familiar with AppSumo, A-P-P-S-U-M-O. Come on, guess. They have a lot, like TidyCal and BreezeDoc and a bunch of these pieces of software. BreezeDoc is for signatures. Instead of buying DocuSign, if you don't have a high volume in things, they have a lot of software that has one-time fees or a lifetime fee or a low fee and they just basically have these deals out on AppSumo. You could waste a lot of time just buying cool software, so there's of course that to look out for.

    Brea: Guilty. I know so many years ago, my introduction to AppSumo was through Book Like a Boss, obviously a scheduling app. And at the time, it just wasn't where I needed it to be. But now it's actually really great, you know. But my Calendly is just it's set up. It's so sophisticated. I've got everything I need. I just can't imagine. switching, you know? But yeah, that's another one you could check out is Book Like a Boss. Especially if you don't want to get into the whole website game, Book Like a Boss allows you to create landing pages for different products. And it's super, super affordable. So it does more than what a normal scheduling app would do for a fraction of the price.

    Lisa: Cool. Yeah. Well, let's take that mention to just go into websites, because there are people in two camps. I'm of a camp, you need a website. And it's fine, like anything that you could use what you just described, Book Like a Boss, and you could go get coachjohn.com and redirect it to your Book Like a Boss page. And I would still consider that having a web presence. But you need a domain name that you can give a person on the street that you meet, go to this web page, and it can redirect them to something scrappy that you've made through that, or Coach Accountable, or even Canva. I have a template for people to make a website on Canva to have something that you can get up within a couple of hours. So it doesn't have to be that hard. Get something. But it does look so much more professional to have a real domain name with a real email address. And by real, you can hear my quotes and my voice. Have that domain name. Because especially to corporate clients, this matters. It makes it look like you're a professional versus a rookie. And I think that is important. So personally, that's my vote. I use WordPress. That is not the simple way. That is hiring a designer and doing the thing. Today, if I started over, I would probably pick Squarespace today, but you can do Squarespace, Weebly, Wix. but I do use WordPress and if you want to do fancy things on your site then the amount of plugins that are available is really incredible and it does give you some mega power to be using a WordPress site. What do you use, Brea?

    Brea: I found a home in Squarespace. Squarespace has really evolved a lot where they have You can do email campaigns now. I actually purchase my Google Workspace. Through Squarespace, I'm able to purchase that Google email, hello at briaroper.com. And I think that's what you're talking about, right? When you say like you need a real email, like an email that matches your domain. Like not a Gmail. Yeah, totally. I mean, I think, yeah, we all get that. I, especially when I see Yahoo or AOL, you know, it's just like, like, that's just not a real, it's not a real business, you know? So get your domain name and you can do all of that through Squarespace. You probably pay a little bit more of a premium because they're handling it all, but it's just easier to not have to buy your domain over here from, you know, GoDaddy or domain.com or whatever. And your Google workspace and you know have all these small bills. I just do it all through Squarespace. So it's easy

    Lisa: I bet you inspired a lot of people who don't want to handle all the invoices, but also they don't have their email address because it seems intimidating. Like I have to buy a domain. What's a host? What's a registrar? How do I go? How do I set up my website? And then how do I do all these connections? And I'm going to have to spend a half a day trying to get my email to work and be able to receive it. And can I get it on my phone? And how is it going to go down? The execution of it all is so intimidating. I think for people to hear what you just said is possible will make people feel like, oh, okay, good. Somebody's making it easy. Yeah.

    Brea: You know, another platform that I love is ShowIt. Are you familiar with ShowIt? just mildly. Okay. It's so easy. It's drag and drop like Canva or like Wix. It's easy for beginners like that, but it pairs with WordPress for blogging, which WordPress, I mean, it just is too sophisticated for me, you know, but like you said, it has so much power. It does so many things and their blogs are excellent through WordPress. So ShowIt pairs with WordPress for blogging. And it's just so pretty. It's so like the templates are just, in my opinion, so far and above any of the other platforms, including Squarespace. So big shout out to ShowIt. ShowIt.

    Lisa: Nice. OK, so since you're bringing up the platforms that are easy to work with and also have beautiful templates. You made me think of people's comments on Flowdesk as their email marketing software. I love Flowdesk, yeah. And I am a Kit user, formerly called ConvertKit, and I love it. I'm an affiliate for Kit. I think it is great software. I use it. I have funnels. I make landing pages. I have a light e-commerce. You can sell digital products on there. It's just really easy to use. The automations are beautiful. I'm really into automations. As you know, if you've heard Brea call me the evergreen queen, I have years worth of emails that come out and that's all set through these really easy visual automations that Kit allow. So I'm into Kit for email marketing. I know you are not an email marketing gal. Do you have an email marketing software outside of what you described in Squarespace?

    Brea: Yeah, I mean, let's not forget that I have a background in marketing, so I've used plenty of things over the years. I just don't love it. So yeah, I think Flowdesk, love. There's also a smaller company out of Nashville called Emma, and I love it. It's super, super yummy and beautiful, like Flowdesk. And it's a smaller company that I love, you know, just love supporting. Supporting the small guys. Okay. HubSpot also comes to mind. It's not, you know, that might transition us into the CRM discussion, but HubSpot also does email marketing. Squarespace, you know, I use that too, so.

    Lisa: MailerLite, Constant Contact, Active Campaign, Aweber. I mean, there are so many. I had, I'm not going to name it because I think it's terrible, but one that I used that was terrible And I guess this is what I'll throw out before we move topics is, yes, I love Kit. I have a lot of reasons to love Kit. I love that it lets you do all those extras, but in a very simple, streamlined way. And mostly it's just great at sending email and it makes it easy in the user face to figure it out so that it doesn't feel intimidating. But think about long-term. So some of these offer really good free trial or free levels. Kit has a free level that allows you to have up to 10,000 subscribers, but of course these free ones are de-featured. So for example, you can have one automation, one sequence, if you get on the free version of Kit, they give you a lot of subscribers. But for me, I have like 40 different automations running. So that's not, that obviously wouldn't work even if I had 10,000, you know, under 10,000. So look at them. They, they tend to all have tiers. So look how they do their pricing tiers and see if that feels like it will work for you.

    Brea: Yeah. I want to stay on email just for a minute because, you know, everybody, everybody needs email marketing of some kind. Some things to consider might be using it to nurture your leads. dripping content that might be part of the different automations that you might do. Also reminding people about their events, which Calendly or your scheduler might do that as well. So you might not need a separate email marketing platform to email about the coaching package, you know, or the coaching events. So it's good to think, do I actually need a dedicated email marketing something, something, or can my website do it, right? Can my scheduling app do it? I don't know, that's where I've found I bought too many things and kind of spread myself too thin and I was able to streamline my process by utilizing things that I already had, you know?

    Lisa: Yes, yes, yes. Love all of that. And if you can get what you need out of an all-in-one, there are very powerful all-in-ones, but a lot of times what I think will happen is what you're describing. Somebody's in Squarespace and they're like, hey, they don't bill themselves as an email marketing software. No one would go to them thinking, I'm doing my research on email marketing, but they find them because they're like, oh, I already have a a website here and they cover me for the basics. I think it's a great way to get started. And then also just in the back of your mind, have a plan. When I get to X number of subscribers or this level of sophistication with how I want to roll out a product, then I'm going to switch over and there will be switching costs because it's a pain in the rear. And you have to usually pay someone to do a bunch of migrations. And any time you switch, it'll be a pain. But it's OK. That's just that's the cost of growth. And it should be an exciting milestone, even though it's a frustrating project.

    Brea: Yeah. Can I throw out one more email marketing adjacent? I love video. I love being on video. I love sending videos. And so I use something called BombBomb. which is video in your email and integrates with my Gmail. So I can, if I'm in my Gmail inbox, there's a little, a little bum bum button where I can just quickly add a video to the email. It can be either live, like it'll just turn on my camera and I talk into the email and then boom, I send it. So there's no uploading. There's no downloading. There's no, you know, any of that exporting and all the things. It's just there's a little button that's in my Gmail. So if I want to use my strengths of communication and and talk to them, I can do that. And then also I can set up email marketing sequences and do all the things, you know, but just. With video. So I'm a huge huge fan.

    Lisa: I love that for Walking someone through a proposal feels totally custom like here. I'm gonna send you this document, but I'm going to talk you through it and There's a technique out there where they have a whiteboard or something and it has your name I'm gonna say that's my favorite thing to do So that and the thumbnail they know this video is specific to me this video doesn't go out in every email this bit I made this video for you So, that one definitely gets me. When I see a video, even if I think the product has nothing to do with me, if it says Lisa somewhere on it, I know they did it for me, then I'll give them that time of day and I'll watch it for a couple minutes.

    Brea: Right. Why wouldn't you? Absolutely. I really do think that especially if your strengths are good on video, I mean, you can't sleep on it. It's such a tool for you. And there are so many ways for you to use it in your business that you're not using it right now. So this is appealing to those of you who love video and are strong on video. There are so many more ways that you can you can apply it. And email is one of those ways that we just don't think about. I would much rather receive a 20 second video from someone saying, it was so great to get coffee with you. Thank you so much. Seeing that person that you just networked with and had a great interaction with, right? getting an email from them that said, hey, it was great meeting you. Have a nice day. Or re-experiencing in just a quick 20-second video, you're brought back to that conversation that you had or that exchange that you had. You see their face, you feel their energy, and it's so much stronger, you know? It's so much stronger. Sold. And it's faster.

    Lisa: Yeah, sold. Yeah. OK, I'm done. You're selling me on this. I don't use BonBon currently, but now I'm sold. It's so good. Well, let's talk about one. This feels like the final foundational, most kind of critical path is talking, and no, I'm not even going to say CRM. I'm going to say platforms for memberships, courses, communities, because I know you're excited about that, Brea, and it is, more likely critical than CRM systems, even though people will obsess over those from day one. So let's make sure we talk memberships, courses, communities. What do you like for hosting?

    Brea: Oh, well, I'm a Mighty Networks girl. I mean, from almost the beginning, when Gina launched it, I just, I love it. And they continue to upgrade, continue to add features. Every week I'm getting emails with, hey, we just added this, and now you can do this. So I love Mighty Networks.

    Lisa: Cool, cool. And stay tuned, everyone, because you'll hear about Brea's Strengths Hub, which is hosted on Mighty Networks.

    Brea: Yeah, that's right. In another episode though, yeah?

    Lisa: Yeah, oh yeah, we totally, that needs its own episode. Of course you can use Circle, of course some people use Facebook groups. I host my courses on ThriveLearn, so you might have heard Brea say the word ThriveCart, and ThriveCart is a software that allows you to have a cart system and a full-on e-commerce, so if you're selling If you're selling a digital product that's more than like, here's your one page PDF, I think having a more robust cart system and delivery system is useful. They also have a module called Thrive Learn, which is their learning management portal. So you can build a course in Thrive Learn and host it there. And then you can have your checkout process through Thrive Cart, the cart system, your checkout page, a sales page, however you want to do it. It includes those things Brio was talking about, upsells if you want to do those. I've been Definitely satisfied with ThriveCart and ThriveLearn, but I also would say it's quirky. If you're listening to this and you know me and you're like, oh, I want to get into that, reach out to me and I'll think through some of the pros and cons to give you. It's not quite as intensive as WordPress, but it's more like that. It's effortful software compared to some where it's like, I click this button and what I see is what the user sees and it's super easy. it's not that.

    Brea: I love those kinds of things. That's my, that's my jam. Yeah. So we, we kind of threw out there CRM. If you don't know what that means, it stands for customer relationship management system, right? A CRM system or a CRM program or platform or whatever. But this is where, um, you do need a place to, To keep all of your people, you know, so you want a place where you see your pipeline? Visually, right what what is out there? What are you working on who are you talking to when was the last time you talked to a Previous customer, right? When when will you follow up with them next? I mean that's Having a system that helps you manage those relationships. That's what a CRM does I have used HubSpot, I've used other things like that, but I use Mighty Networks to do all of these things. Mighty Networks really is my all-in-one. It does my email marketing, it does my community building, it's where I store resources. I don't have a vault per se, but that would be my vault. There are things in there that people in the community can access, right? So it does all those things and it integrates with Zoom. It's just like, that's my all-in-one that I really, really love. So I'm excited to share more about that in another episode. But again, I think you don't have to, you might need to, or you might want to have unique tech for all of the different things, I've found that I enjoy having all those things in one place.

    Lisa: Yeah, and you may or may not need this. The reason why I get on my rants about, hey look, don't obsess about your CRM before you have five clients because just stick it in a spreadsheet, you know? Like, or if you don't do one on one clients, so you don't have a giant list, like, for example, there were years when I had 15 active clients, it didn't sound like that many, but I would have 50 events for some of them each per year. But then it was more about event management, not so much about managing the individual customers. So it was very easy to use customer information and QuickBooks or tagging them in Kit, and I could get all the info I needed. And then the rest of it was just in Asana, where we did our project management. So you could have a very thriving business and depending on Whether you have high volume with a few number of customers or a lot of customers to keep up with, a lot of prospects to keep up with, then you sure, you know, you probably do need a CRM to prompt you. You can use Pipedrive, Keap, K-E-A-P, Zoho, HubSpot, GoHighLevel, Kajabi. So there are a lot of them to choose from.

    Brea: Yeah. And again, remember, what's the job of the tech? So if a CRM is, is a system to manage your customer relationships, but you don't have any customers yet, you don't need a CRM, right? Or you only have five or 10, like you can manage those relationships without a very complicated and robust, but complex Salesforce, um, program. And expensive, by the way. So pay for what you need. Pay for what helps you. Pay for the things that save time, that save money for you in other places. But you don't need a CRM if you don't have a lot of relationships to manage. And you might be managing those relationships through email, right? So your email marketing might kind of serve as customer relationship management if the managing that you're doing is nurturing those relationships by dripping them content or by keeping them up to date in your email. but you're not planning on reaching out to them or making sales calls or things like that, you know, you don't need a CRM. You can just manage those relationships through email or, like I do, through the Mighty Network, you know. So just

    Lisa: Let it become a need before the spend. Yeah, yeah. They all have helpful bits. I was making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year not using a CRM. I didn't need to have it ping me to say to reach out to a prospect. I was getting more prospects than I could possibly handle. So it was great. I didn't need it to do that. So I just used email marketing exactly as you described. I use it to keep up with and nurture the relationships and that all happened through my email marketing platform.

    Brea: Yeah. So I love having a CRM because it helps me visualize the different. I mean, I've used pipeline, I've used pipe drive because I need that. I need a place where I can go and see these are the people that I reached out to. These are the prospects. These are the things that are in the pipeline, you know, and I can see where they are. You know, am I at the very beginning? Are we close to the end? That makes sense for my brain and I want a visual representation where I can see all the different deals that I'm working on at once, you know, and where they are in the progress. And I also love their relationship management aspect of, you know, when's your birthday? Or I love doing a little reach out when it's their CliftonStrengths anniversary, because on their, on the reports, it tells you when they took the assessment. So I love like following up, you know, those little reach outs. That's where a CRM is helpful because you can put all that data in there and a spreadsheet gets really full really fast.

    Brea: So, again, just remember, like, what's the job that you want it to do for you? And then figure out what tech do I need or what tech best supports that job, you know, that I'm looking to fill. There might be aspects of the CRM that you want to use, but could be done by a different type of tech or vice versa.

    Lisa: I love it. That is a beautiful way to describe when things that CRMs are great for that the other pieces of software wouldn't do. I want to give an honorable mention to Canva because even though I don't consider it to be the most critical when you're starting your business. It has been one of the most important pieces of software. I use it every, probably every day, definitely every week. It has such incredible power. And when I left and found that I had an alternative to using PowerPoint for design, for my delivery, everything from creating images to videos to editing, editing a photo, like just having a photo editor and not having to buy Photoshop, all kinds of things. I love, love, love Canva. So there's my 20 second Canva commercial.

    Brea: Do you have one? I also am a Canva girl. I do have a graphic designer that I hire out marketing assets and my logo, my brand, things like that, especially any printed things. I usually have her design. But for digital stuff, for quick things, I mean, Canva does so much. So I use it. you know, I use it to create the images for the podcast. I use it to create so many things. So Canva Pro, I am a subscriber and it's worth it to me for sure. Yeah. Same. I use it for presentations and slide decks a hundred percent. It's so much prettier and so much easier than Google Slides or PowerPoint or anything. And you can, again, talk about something that has like really grown over time. I mean, Canva continues to really innovate. And now not only can you design your slide decks in Canva, but you can present from Canva. And now you can present offline too, which is great. So there's, it just continues to get better and better and better.

    Lisa: Yeah, they have added so many AI features in the recent months and even I mentioned website. If you don't have a website, you can literally build a website as a type of when you click create, it's like you want to create a document, a social media image, whatever. Website is one of the choices and then you click publish and all you have to do is redirect your domain name to that link they give you. It's wild what you can do.

    Brea: So easy, yeah. I actually love teaching coaches how to use Canva, so if you're interested in learning more about all the things that you can do in Canva, come find me and I'll add you to the list to be invited to the next, you know, Next thing, one thing that I love creating in Canva that I used to pay my graphic designer to do for me and now I don't have to anymore is customized top five cards for like a lanyard or just a postcard for a workshop or whatever. She designed the card itself, but now Canva actually has a mail merge feature that not a lot of people know about. What? There you go. See?

    Lisa: I wouldn't have even thought to ask it to do that. It's amazing. So incredible and there's so much I know if you're a listener and you're like this episode alone Was a ton to think about write down Map out and I have all these other questions. What if I want to make a quiz on my website? What about a PDF editor? What about those documents signing? I mean, there's so much software that you'll find crops up the need or the desire for it will crop up as you go through your business. So if you want a mega list, I have one, you go to leadthroughstrengths.com/techstack. And I have this list with every category I could think of the day that I made the list. It's pretty big. It's six pages of technology, where it's like, I need X category. What can I look at? It'll give you that. And then I also put asterisks by the basically the foundational tech stack stuff that we talked about today. So, you know, if you're getting started, you don't want to kill yourself with the six pages worth of things to go figure out. And then I put my specific tech stack in there. If you're like, well, what do you use? What do you buy? I have that in here as well.

    Brea: I love it. And of course you can come and talk to me and other listeners at our biweekly meetups. So if all of this sounds a little bit overwhelming, you want some clarity around some of the things we've talked about, or you want to learn from other listeners what they're, what they're using, um, come join us on zoom. So we meet every other week. Come to my website, BreaRoper.com to get the invite. 

    Lisa: We'll see you in there.

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 181 - Nurturing Client Relationships - Email or Online Community

In this episode, we dive into a lively showdown between two powerful strategies for nurturing relationships: email marketing vs. online communities.

You'll hear us engage in a playful showdown, where we throw down our best arguments for why our preferred method is the ultimate way to nurture relationships. As we explore the virtues of each approach, you'll learn about the power of automation and the certainty of email marketing, and the real-time engagement and community-building magic that comes from private online spaces.

🎧 So, whether you're team email or team community, or just curious about how to nurture your connections, this episode is packed with fun banter and valuable takeaways!

🌟

    • Automation in Email Marketing: One of the standout points from our discussion is the incredible efficiency that email marketing offers through automation. With just a little upfront effort, you can create content that continues to nurture your audience for years to come. Imagine spending an hour crafting a message that can be reused and repurposed over a decade! This longevity allows you to stay top-of-mind with your audience, even if they don’t open every email. Email marketing shines with its ability to automate and reuse content over time. You can create a nurturing sequence that continues to engage your audience for years, maximizing the value of your efforts.

    • Real-Time Engagement in Online Communities: On the flip side, we explored the dynamic nature of online communities. Unlike email, where messages can get lost in crowded inboxes, a private online community allows for real-time interaction and engagement. Members can set their preferences to see exactly what they want, fostering a more personalized experience. This two-way communication not only builds stronger relationships but also empowers members to support each other, creating a vibrant ecosystem of collaboration.

    • Choose What Fits Your Style: Ultimately, the episode emphasizes that the best approach depends on your personal strengths and preferences. Whether you lean towards email marketing or online communities, aligning your strategy with your unique style will yield the best results.

    • Explore Email Marketing Tools: Check out Lisa’s Tools for Coaches membership group and consider using Kit to access pre-built email sequences and automations that can simplify your email marketing efforts.

    • Engage in Online Communities: Consider creating or joining a private online community to facilitate real-time interactions and connections. Start with the Lead Through Strengths Podcast Meetup, hosted by Brea.

    • Experiment with Content: Test different types of content in both email and community settings. For email, consider sending personalized messages that feel genuine, while in a community, encourage members to share their insights and support each other.

  • Lisa: I'm Lisa. or Mrs. T

    Brea: I'm Brea. Iced T

    Lisa: And, uh, we have our alter egos with us today because we're doing a showdown, like a rap battle about nurturing with email marketing or with a community. And it's the battle. I, Mrs. T, I'm there for the email marketing camp.

    Brea: and Ice-T checking in, yo, yo, yo. I'm here for the online community. We gotta have a rap battle before we start. All right, okay. Yo, yo, yo, iced tea in the ring. I ain't here just to flex. I'm here to build something. Ooh, iced tea chases clout.

    Lisa: Try to burn real quick, but I'm laying foundations brick by brick.

    Brea: Oh, I feel burned, incinerated. You win. That was great.

    Lisa: Gosh. And my positivity wants to stop immediately with the rap battle because I just want us to have mutual respect and not burn each other.

    Brea: I mean, I do respect email marketing, but let's be honest, it's the worst.

    Lisa: Online community all the way. I know. I'm in a tough camp, but as Mrs. T, I pity the fool that does not have email marketing on your side because it has so many virtues and people love to hate on it. It's not right.

    Brea: I know. The irony is not lost on me that for probably six to seven years of my life, people paid me to write email campaigns for them, you know, and, and create funnels and all the things and I just am so over it. So yeah, I'm excited for the battle. Let's go.

    Lisa: Okay, okay. Well, let's just start with the virtues of each and we get to give our debates about like, hey, this is why my thing is such a great thing. And of course, in the end, okay, spoiler alert for everyone. I know that communities are great. Bria knows that email marketing can be great. We believe that having both could be amazing, but we're totally gonna go with our characters and stay true to the one we're fighting for today.

    Brea: Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Yeah.

    Lisa: Right?

    Brea: Oh my gosh.

    Lisa: We're so tough. Can't you just feel the chains on me?

    Brea: I know. I can see the like gold grill. Wait. Oh, that's Flava Flav with the big clock. Yeah. Anyways. Okay. Let's do it. I'm ready.

    Lisa: Okay.

    Brea: You want to go first?

    Lisa: Sure. Okay. Let me give a major virtue of email marketing. I'm going to call it automation and systems, but the way this comes out is you can spend an hour building some content and you put it in your email system as an email and you added it to some nurture sequence or sequences, even better. You can spend that one hour and reuse it for A decade. And this is where email marketing shines because you can write that thing, put it in your systems, which takes a little bit more effort to create sequences and possibly tagging people by interest so it can be really individualized to them. And then you can reuse it eternally. I love that. You just get so much use out of your time.

    Brea: Yeah. I mean, hello, Maximizer. I hear that for sure, for sure. So tell me, tell me how you're seeing this sustainability and the longevity from your email sequences. Like, are you actually reusing them year over year or quarterly? Or tell me, tell me more about that.

    Lisa: Okay. So it can be, Yes, it can be reused. You're not going to remember something you saw two years ago that you may or may not have opened two years ago, right? So yes, you can reuse. If you make timeless content, it hits people different at different moments, different phases in their lives. So that's really cool. And then I think really. One of my other major, major loves for, and cases for email marketing is certainty. It's certainty that you can keep in touch every single one. lands in their box. And even if you don't open it, it keeps coming by. And after a handful of times, I know that person's name. So if they see Lisa Cummings lead through strengths and then they've been deleting it for six weeks and then they're like, oh yeah, I really need to focus on my strengths right now. And then they start reading them again. Or the best scenario that happens to me, people hit reply a year or more later and book me for events. It's happened over the 11 years I've been in business. It's happened many, many, many times. It's so cool. They've just been passively and lightly reading messages. I don't even know it, but they've been receiving them. Like, I've been on their mind in some small way, or Strengths has been on their mind in some small way, and then it's time to book their team retreat, and they're like, hey, we're doing a team retreat. Are you available on these days? That is so cool. So cool. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a cool value of email marketing that I've experienced over the years.

    Brea: Yeah. Yeah. So this is interesting because I'm thinking of so many objections to what you're saying. I mean, I could tell you 10 ways that I'm certain that I have not read the emails that are in my email inbox. I actually have several what I call throwaway email addresses that I give to people specifically for promotions, right? And I don't ever check that email inbox, right? So I think what you're saying is the certainty is in relation to the algorithm. And so I think that's where I'm going to put online communities in the ring up against email marketing. That is something that I love about the online community. And I'm not talking about Facebook. I'm talking about private online community. So this is not a Facebook group or a LinkedIn group. This is a mighty network or a circle. This is a place where algorithms don't live. So here's where I think we agree. I am certain that every time I post something to my community, it will show up in their feed, you know, and they can set settings inside of your community to say, I want to see everything in my feed, or I only want to see posts about this strength, or I only want to see posts about live events or, you know, whatever. So they can really be in control of how much, how little, what type of content or they want to see everything, you know. And I think that that is so much better than social media and something similar, you know, with email marketing in that way.

    Lisa: Yeah, if we had a battle rap with social media, we would both be dissing battle.

    Brea: No, I appreciate social media, but social to me feels very similar to what you're talking about with emails, where even if people don't read it, they're seeing your name pop up, you know. But I think what I love about online communities is it allows me to really get my arms around people and really move from the nurturing to the building of the relationships. and engage even in real time. You can live stream from your community at any time. And if someone's just like doom scrolling on their phone or checking their emails on their phone, they'll get a pop-up notification that says, Bria went live and they can click and just talk to you live. That doesn't really happen in the same way with email. So there's pros and cons to it all, I guess. How do we even fight about it? Because it's like so many things to win about all of them.

    Lisa: As the episode goes on, we're like, oh, yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah. Yeah.

    Brea: That's right.

    Lisa: I heard you to get back to one more debate point. This was probably a couple of months ago. You and I were talking and you were like, oh, the concept of email marketing hurts my individualization. And meanwhile, I was like, oh, my individualization and my top five loves email marketing. Can we have a little bit of that conversation? Tell us where, obviously, it's going to shine in a community for you, but let's just talk about the personal touch, the individualizing to the person you're interacting with, and how that plays into your vote and your view on email marketing and community.

    Brea: I almost hate to talk about this on a podcast because I know that I'm especially sensitive to email marketing because I have spent so much time, I mean years with it, that I really just feel kind of burnt out by it. This is just me, this is my opinion, my experience, so take it with a grain of salt. But I think the automated fields that allow you to customize, like adding a variable, like a first name, or even their CliftonStrengths, or the company that they work at, or the place that you met them, or whatever variables you might put into an email template to make it feel more custom, it just doesn't get me anymore. I get that that's what's happening, so the magic is gone. As a consumer, there's nothing magical or personal about receiving a mass email. Because I don't love it as a customer, I just don't love it as a business owner. And I think that is my whole approach to this conversation is as a customer, I don't love it. I literally have email inboxes that I don't check ever. So I just, I assume that other people are that way too. I just don't like spending time in emails. I would much prefer to talk to people in my community versus just sending out a blast email to everyone.

    Lisa: Right. Yeah. It's fun hearing how the ones that we're voting for, like me voting for email and you voting for community, of course, they're reflecting our strengths and our personalities. I agree with Bria. I do not use those personalization features. Number one, we all know it. It feels like a trick where it's like, hey, Lisa. And you're like, you didn't send that to me with my name. But also what's worse, if I have a list of 30,000 people, it's not clean enough. And so if you put Bria Roper in the first name field, and I say, Hi, Bria Roper, comma, and that's joltingly annoying, because now I'm trying to make a personal connection that is so falling on my head.

    Brea: That's right.

    Lisa: It's a horrible feeling. So whether your fields get mixed up or if there's missing data, we've all received those emails where it says, hi, first name, and you're like, oh, it just grates on me.

    Brea: I would rather not send an email than send an email that, you know, comes up that way.

    Lisa: Yeah, me too.

    Brea: I think, oh, I just have so many thoughts. It's interesting to me that when I take the time to actually send one-off emails, like this is not an email campaign, you know, I'm emailing you manually. You know, just you. This is me typing. A lot of times people think that it's a mass email because they have received marketing campaigns. And unfortunately, like I've had that feedback and I'm like, oh my gosh, that's just me talking, you know? And so instead of trying to fight it, it's just easier for me to be in a community. They know that it's me talking to them there. They don't have to question. When I reply to this, is it going to go to her? Is it going to go, you know, where is it going to go? Like, I don't know. I just. Right. Yeah.

    Lisa: And I will say to get that nurture effect, because this is all in the context of nurturing relationships, right? For email marketing, I've said really specifically, it's like, hey, this is Lisa, and I'm behind this. And if you hit reply, it's going to be Lisa. And so I've mentioned that. Yeah, because then they really do reply. And some people really spill their guts in stories. about things that are so incredible and life-changing for them. It's amazing. So when people say email marketing, oh, it's so cold. It's so generic. I'm like, I have incredible conversations with people where they share their stuff. So it has to be in the design of what you send and whether they believe there's really a human behind there they could hit reply and talk to.

    Brea: Yep, that's right. And as you build, they're receiving emails from you over time. They're going to realize like, oh, this really is Lisa. I think that's really important. The relationship that you have with them can be nurtured if there's that trust there. I feel like it's hard with email alone, right? Just email by itself to build trust solely through email.

    Lisa: Well, okay, this is a really good reason to support email marketing or communities for the kind of work that we do. Because if our relationship is kicked off with a coaching call or our relationship is kicked off with a workshop, they already have a personal relationship with us. And now if they come to our list, they know us as a human and it has a different effect than if somebody just started randomly getting emails from a hundred percent.

    Brea: And this, This is where I can get on board with email. But for me, it's different. It's not email marketing. It really is a true nurturing of a relationship that already exists, you know. Then bring on the automation. Make it easy. Make sure that that you're continuing to stay in contact with them. But when it comes to email marketing as generating leads, just being on your website, asking people to sign up for your email list, nobody wants to sign up for another email list. So maybe that's a big difference in my mind and in my heart even is what kind of email nurturing are we talking about? Where on the journey?

    Lisa: Yeah, and we're supposed to be debating here. But really, we're so agreeing. And I think the word marketing has it flagged. And I call it email marketing, because it's really what all the software providers call it, and the industry calls it right. But the truth is what I've, what I've executed over the years is nurturing relationship building and education. And maybe I've earned the right being in their inbox occasionally to announce an offer, but It's not, I'm in your box trying to sell to you constantly because that wouldn't work.

    Brea: Yeah, that's right. I mean, the numbers I'm sure have changed over the years, but it used to be recommended one in every seven emails would be a call to action for money. And the other six in the sequence were true nurture, you know, of some kind. So it's probably one in 10 now, you know, where you need more nurture now than you did back then. Yeah. So I have a question for you because we are very different people in a lot of ways, and we do have some similar strengths, okay? So I'm curious. For me, emails, it's not enough interaction. That's something that with my influencing themes especially, I need that feedback from people. I need to know that I am talking to someone, that it is showing up in their inbox. And I understand we can look at analytics to see are people clicking, are people not clicking, whatever. My question is always, why not? Why didn't they click through? Was it the subject line? Was it the whatever? There are a million reasons why it might have bounced or it might have gone unread. And so I want that communication. I want that feedback. And email doesn't give that to me in the way that a community does. Is that because my connectedness is so high and yours is is lower? Is that because like, I don't know, why? Why is that that it's easier for you to just put it out there? And if people reply like that's great, but you don't need that in the same way.

    Lisa: Yeah, probably. I would say part of it is going to be a cutting off of how much time I spend just goofing and talking with people because that would be super fun for me. Like if I take a physical example of this early in my career, it was really difficult when people wanted a jibber jabber in the office when you're in the same space. I felt like, wow, I'm a highly distractible person. I'm going to be kind to the person who comes in to interrupt me, but my inside voice is going to be like, oh my gosh, quit interrupting me. I have four more hours of work to do. Now I'm going to stay here until 10 PM.

    Brea: I don't have that inside voice. I need that inside voice.

    Lisa: So I think that same inside voice happens where Like I banned myself from Instagram for years because it's so fun to do all those interactions that I can just lose myself in that stuff and not get back to revenue generating opportunities and the operations of the business and the core functions of the business. Although community does serve part of a core function, obviously, like the relationship building part, the nurture. But I think for me, it is a little bit more of that cutting off. Like if someone's replying, with me and we're having interactions on email marketing, one, I can get what I need to get done for the day and I can put that in my email block that I have allocated for myself. Like I have this many hours in a day to reply to email, whether that's one or three or whatever it's taking at that phase of my life. And if I finish up, then I can have fun and do like longer and more engaged interactions with people. Whereas, um, If I just allowed myself to kind of be around in a community and it's pinging me all the time, I would be so distracted that I wouldn't be a business person. I would just be like, oh, let's talk in the community. So I think that is part of a managing myself preference.

    Brea: Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, because one of the things that I love about the community is that it can be real time. Like I said, I can live stream from the community, or I can just chat with the community. And if people have the notification set up on their phone, they can get the push notification and just chat right back. And that's really cool. But also or and They have each other, you know, it's kind of the difference between a group coaching and a one-on-one coaching like I don't have to be responding to all the questions because they're responding to each other and My activator loves that right? when I see that especially when I see them giving good answers to each other. I'm like, oh my gosh, you've learned, you know, like, good job, you've got it, you know, and you're sharing it with someone else. Like, that's so satisfying for me to be able to just observe, you know, and then to just like, or, you know, positivity comes in and I'm like, yeah, good job, you know.

    Lisa: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that is incredible. And you could have clients from six different companies and the four people from each of those engagements who are the most excited about strengths. Now they're connecting with each other and sharing ideas with each other and you've curated that. So I could see that being really fulfilling.

    Brea: Yeah. It's so fun. Yeah. What about, so when I think of email, I also think of tech headaches and I know you love tech and I do too. When it works, it can be amazing. There are probably listeners that are like you. There are definitely listeners that are like me and for sure there are listeners who are like, I don't even know where to begin. So any thoughts about that?

    Lisa: I think, I mean, one, come over to Tools for Coaches, get sequences that I've already made. Make it easy on yourself. I've already built the automations. And if you use Kit, you can import it as a whole automation. So it already has all the email sequences strung together and can just, with a click of a button, get people into that couple-year sequence. So that's one. If you really want a shortcut, come over leadthroughstrengths.com, join at Tools for Coaches. in the main menu.

    Brea: I just want to clarify for people, what you're saying is you've built the sequences. Not only are they written, but they're like plug and play, pre-programmed, ready to go. So if you, listeners, if you invest in the platform kit, then all of Lisa's content is literally just push a button and it's ready to go.

    Lisa: Yeah, and they'll want to customize emails probably.

    Brea: The easy part, right? Like they don't have to worry about finding the right platform and integrating and you know, do I have to zap with Zapier? Do I, you know, like it's just right here. It's already done for you. Yeah. Right.

    Lisa: And we'll put the link to, I have an affiliate link for kick. It's the thing. It's like the only software that I am an affiliate for cause I, Love it. It makes all of that intimidation that you're talking about. It makes it just Dissolve it allows you to tag people with certain things. So let's just take an example of CliftonStrengths You could tag them as a corporate client so that an individual one-on-one coaching client might get different content from your corporate group training people. Or maybe you tag them with their CliftonStrengths. And if they click on something that if you say like, you could write an email that has all 34 CliftonStrengths, and you could say, click on the five that are yours, you'll get tagged for it. And I'm going to send out a just info that relates to your top five. That's all a possibility and that's all stuff that you can tell it to do based on the person's behavior. If they click X, then do Y. It's so cool what you can do with it. Mine, I don't use like a newsletter where that week everyone's getting the same message. I use mine like If you're on day one of the sequence, you're on day one of the sequence. And the person next to you can be on day 30 of the sequence. And then any of the real time stuff that I need to announce, like hey, there's a webinar next week, that would be in the PS, because I can put that in the footer of the message, so that I get the benefits of a newsletter and the benefits of the automations where they're running through and pulling people through a process. And that might sound complicated, but the system, it's literally dragging visually into They call them visual automations, and you literally do these visual things. If someone gets X-tagged, then kick off this sequence, and then boom, it just does the thing for you.

    Brea: Yeah, and I love Mighty Networks. Same thing, you know, they use tags. We've got automations, and so you can really personalize it. Yeah, it's interesting to hear you talk about your love for email because I get all of that. And I think what it comes down to for me is the online community. It feels more two-way to me, even though email can be that. The way that I use email and maybe the way that a lot of people use email is more of just like, I'm receiving it, it's content that I'm receiving. And I feel like with my community, at least the way that I try to run it is, it's not that, it's conversation, it's exchange. And so I'm not using the tags and the automations and the data to customize content that I'm pushing out. I'm using it to figure out how to make connections with people, who needs to meet who, you know, and everyone in the community has that data. So it's not just me. Everyone can see, you know, you can go and click on, you know, whatever strength and automatically you see whoever else has that in their top five. Like that's, cool, you know, and it's available to everyone instead of just like the man behind the curtain. So I love that, the connection that it brings, how everyone can engage together and it's more of a conversation. So here's my communication coming out.

    Lisa: Communication connectedness, so surprised.

    Brea: Yeah. And less of a, like, this is just a way to give information. It's really a conversation. Community, you know, really, like, that's what it is.

    Lisa: Yeah. And if you take my strengths with email marketing and say, OK, here's an offer of some education or a tidbit. And then if it happens to strike you and it strikes a chord with you and you're interested, then hit reply and we'll have a conversation. And then that honors my focus and being able to stay in my focus mode, but then build a relationship with the person who is like, oh yeah, that was really cool for me, so now I'm going to engage. And then when they initiate that engagement, now we have a DM going basically.

    Brea: Yeah. I think I'm realizing more that, I actually was just talking about this with, we had our podcast meetup today, so if you're listening and you haven't come to one of those, zoom on over to briaroper.com and sign up for the invites to our Zoom meetups. But we were talking about how I love equipping and empowering and encouraging coaches or business owners or the client so much that email to me feels like a distraction from that. Yeah, and community is my distraction. Oh, it's so interesting. So interesting.

    Lisa: So lesson, we might have our showdown, but for you, when you're deciding as the listener, which one do I choose? Choose the one that aligns with your strengths.

    Brea: And you can't say both.

    Lisa: Just kidding. Okay. We're going to have to have a vote out on the community. You have to pick one or the other. Yeah.

    Brea: Oh, there's so many things on my list of things that I love about the community. It's honestly, it doesn't even feel fair to like pit them against each other because they're not even the same thing. It's really not even apples and oranges. It's like fruit and vegetables. You know, I mean, they're just like different.

    Lisa: Yeah. Um, different things, but we've come together in a, in a hug at the end.

    Brea: How do rap battles end with a, a winner and a mic drop and ooooooooh!

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 180 - Should I List Prices On My Coaching Website?

🎧 In this episode, we dive into a hot topic that many speakers, trainers, and coaches grapple with: Should you put prices on your website?

Of course, there are many pros and cons of displaying prices, so we unpack various strategies that can help you make the best decision for your business. 

Whether you’re leaning towards transparency or prefer to keep things under wraps, the key is to make a decision that aligns with your business model and audience expectations. So grab your favorite beverage, tune in, and let’s figure out together if listing prices is the right move for you!

🌟

    • Quality Over Quantity: One of the most compelling arguments for listing prices is that it can significantly improve the quality of your leads. By providing clear pricing information, you allow potential clients to self-select based on their budget and needs. This means fewer inquiries from individuals who may not be able to afford your services, ultimately saving you time and energy.

    • Understanding Your Audience: The decision to list prices isn't just about your preferences; it's also about understanding your audience. Different demographics have varying expectations. Tailoring your pricing strategy to fit the needs and preferences of your target audience can enhance trust and engagement.

    • Flexibility is Key: There’s no one-size-fits-all answer when it comes to pricing. Offering different prices for corporate clients versus individuals or nonprofits can help you attract a wider range of clients. Also, depending on the nature of your offerings, you might choose to list prices for some services while keeping others more flexible. For example, if you offer a straightforward product, like a $10 guide, it makes sense to list that price. However, for more complex services that require a conversation, you might opt for a range or an "inquire for pricing" approach. This flexibility allows you to cater to different client needs while still providing essential information.

    • Use Forms and Automation: Instead of relying solely on discovery calls, consider using forms or chatbots to gather information from potential clients. This can help you provide tailored pricing information without the need for a direct conversation.

    • Transparency Builds Trust: Being upfront about your prices can foster trust with potential clients. If you provide context and value alongside your pricing, it can enhance their willingness to engage with you.

    • Evaluate Your Offerings: Determine if your services are clear and transactional enough to warrant listing prices on your website. If you have standard packages, consider displaying their prices.

    • Utilize Forms and Automation: Implement application forms or chatbots on your website to gather information from potential clients before scheduling a call. This can help qualify leads and provide them with a price range based on their responses.

    • Create Informative Content: Create videos or educational content that explains your services and pricing structure, especially if you decide to list prices. This can help build trust and prime potential clients for the sale.

  • Lisa: I'm Lisa. 

    Brea: I'm Brea. 

    Lisa: Today's conversation is about, should you list prices on your website as a speaker, trainer, or coach, Bria? What say you?

    Brea: This is a question that people ask all the time, isn't it? And honestly, I see pros and cons for both. Normally, I'm pretty opinionated, but this is one where I feel like it could go either way. What about you?

    Lisa: I say yes, which is a controversial take, but I can be convinced otherwise possibly, but certainly I understand why there are opinions on both sides and there are definitely strategies on both sides. So you want to break them down?

    Brea: Yeah. I mean, honestly, I'm surprised that you think that it's controversial to post prices. Is that what I heard you say?

    Lisa: Yes. Oh, especially in the professional speaker world. Really? It feels like religion that you 

    do not post your prices, that you get people on a call because you reveal it on the call. Interesting. Yeah.

    Brea: Yeah. Okay. I mean, I don't have prices on my website, but I have had prices on my website before and I will have prices on my website in the future. Like it's not a, it's just kind of, you know, my website right now is not great. Let's be honest. Um, the cobbler whose kids don't have shoes, you know, it's like the market, whose website hasn't been updated in years. Um, Let's talk about why.

    Lisa: There are legitimate reasons why people do not list prices on their website. I do have prices listed on mine and I do like that idea, but let's go from the other side first. Why do people decide or opt to not list them for services?

    Brea: Scarcity mindset comes to mind immediately. I think people are afraid that they'll lose the deal or they'll lose the opportunity, right, if they don't have the opportunity to sell or they can't, you know, communicate value or whatever. I think that might be one.

    Lisa: Absolutely. I'll say that absolutely happened. I would get a lot of leads where people would be like, Oh, tell me about your workshops. Tell me about your speech. And then when I did, they would be like, Oh, I had $300 to budget. Oh, I had $700. And they were never going to be able to afford that service they were asking me about in the first place. So it created a lot of work. And not like those people weren’t great. They just didn't work at a company. Our market wasn't aligned.

    The day I started listing prices, now this was probably eight years ago, but when I started listing prices, I got way fewer lead forms. So many less than I received before. my lead quality went up a ton.

    Yeah, you might get fewer leads. But we've all done this before. You can shop online for a blazer. And if I see a blazer and it says that the blazer jacket, I'm not talking about a Chevy, but the jacket says it costs $5,500, I might be like, I don't wear those very often. I'm not in that market. It doesn't mean that's not worth that to somebody. It's just not my market. We're not a great fit for each other. And you just kind of scroll on by and move on so that you're not spending hours considering each other.

    Brea: Yeah, so that sounds like a pro for why you would list your prices on your website is to help your website visitor to decide, is this in my budget? Is this aligned with what I'm looking for before you have that conversation and invest that time?

    Lisa: Well, it could be a con in that person who wasn't a good fit for that. They might be a good fit for something else. So if your website isn't clear enough to give them a different path, like, Hey, if this is too high for your budget, here are other options. You could lose that person entirely where maybe you could be of service to them. So that would be a con. If you don't have the conversation laid out in a way that's consumable for them. Cause you could just say, boom, that leads gone forever. And maybe you could have had a relationship just in a different capacity.

    Brea: Yeah, I think if you're someone who has very clear offerings, you've got two or three signature offers, those are the things that you just do over and over and over again, then it's easy. Put those on your website, put the prices, and let people say yes or no. If you're someone who is like me and I like to customize things, I like to create things from scratch, really yummy experience. I want to talk to you. I want to figure out what are your challenges, what are your goals, and I have to have that conversation. And I love the conversation, so most of the time I'm willing to invest that time because if we're not a good fit, I probably know someone who is, and I would love to refer you to them. or maybe connect you with a different type of resource. That is fun for me too. So if I have the time, I'd love to have that conversation just to hear more about what you're looking for and go from there. So do you have something that's out of the box that people can just pull off the shelf, look at the price tag and say, yes, no. Then if you do, then do that. And if you don't have that, then get on a call.

    Lisa: Right. Right. I do think that is a valid conversation. If you have very different kinds of buyers, some more experienced than others, you could send them to an education piece. But yeah, there's some of that. And then also there are upsells that sometimes they do on the calls like Hey, if you want to buy a book for every participant, it could look like this or where the budget categories are. Like if they're spending money on books versus speaker, they may need to move around what it looks like on the invoice and how it gets priced. So some of those things do warrant a live call together. So I do understand from that perspective why they may not want to list.

    Brea: Yeah, and a lot of those reasons are also reasons why prices are not on my website right now. So I fully support all of that. And you could get a lot of that information or have that conversation in air quotes. Can you hear my air quotes? The conversation. via an application, a form of some kind. You can ask those types of questions without actually spending your time on a call. So I think that's a step that a lot of coaches may not consider, you know, because like you said, we hear it all the time. You have to get on a call, you know, do a free discovery call or whatever, you know. But you can use an application or a form to gather a lot of information before you decide whether or not you want to invest your time in a call. And those forms can even be automated. I mean, Lisa, you're the automation queen. You know, depending on how they answer it, you could set it up to where they receive an automated proposal or a sales sheet or something that says, hey, based on your answers, this is what we recommend and this is how much it costs and are you interested? There's so many ways that you could go beyond the typical list your prices or have a discovery call. It's not black or white. There are more options.

    Lisa: Yes. I used to have that set up. I had it quite sophisticated because I would ask them things like, for if it's a, is this a CliftonStrengths event? If yes, if they answered yes, then another question comes in. Top five, full 34, or you already have your own. And based on their answer, and one of the ones is like, tell me the difference between top five and full 34. I don't know which one I'm open to hearing. If they clicked that, I would send them some education on what those are. So that's just an example. But now, JotForm and others. Now there are so many chatbots that you can program with answers. I think people are becoming more open to typing things like that instead of a contact form. And you can program it to know quite a lot. So you could go in an in-between instead of just a, do you list or do you not list prices on your website? You could say, well, should you list your prices on your website? Maybe you decide no, but then you put a chatbot and Have it return a range, depending, and as they answer questions about, it depends, full 34, top five, et cetera, is coaching included? Then it could give them back even things like a price range. Hey, a typical client pays X for what you've described, and then go from there.

    Brea: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I also have done this. I've heard of other coaches kind of living in that middle ground that you're describing and actually putting those prices on your website. So maybe it's not a sticker price for a specific item, but you can say something like, this package starts at X number of dollars and it at least gives people an idea of, okay, I'm looking at $, $$, $$$, or $$$$. like where Where are we, you know, in the expense range? Because if a package starts at five grand and they were looking for 500, we're way off, right? Like, I'm not going to buy a blazer for $5,000 if I'm looking for something that's $500.

    Lisa: Yes, but also let's get to what I think is another reality that is just more nuanced. No one's going to like nuance, right? Because you just want the quick internet answer. Um, people, if they've been able to get to know you over time in whatever way, they've already seen you speak, they've met you at an event before, they've watched your YouTube channel, whatever thing that makes them feel really comfortable with you, that is really different from just going to someone's website cold because the relationship with you and the trust or lack of trust that hasn't been built yet, those can, I think, really affect whether prices would make sense or not. Both, whether you should list them or whether someone would be open to a bigger price. after a conversation. So there's all kinds of stuff they could be anchored in when they show up and they're looking for a price. They used to call them tire kickers in sales. They're just running around looking for 20 prices just to get an idea of what a thing should cost. There are definitely people who might be doing that, but it's probably more nuanced now. They're probably following somebody around on social for a while or some other channels. And then when it's time, they're like, oh, I know who to go to.

    Brea: Yep. And you know, as a consumer, I've kicked a lot of tires, okay? I love finding a good deal and making sure that I'm shopping around to get the best price, to get the best value, to get the best deal. As a business owner, I most of the time don't want to work with people who are just looking for the lowest price, right? Like, I don't want to just show up and do a one-off workshop for a team that's not really excited to be learning about CliftonStrengths, you know, or to be discovering their own strengths or the strengths of their colleagues. I don't enjoy that. And so, part of the strategy of not including my prices on my website is to let the people who are just looking for the lowest price for a one-off workshop that they just have to do because their their manager said, hey, go out there and find somebody to do this for us. That's not my ideal customer. So I'm just letting them self-select away, you know? Yeah.

    Lisa: Yeah, that's a good one. I think it would definitely be a vote for listing prices on your website. If you have some products or services that are a little more transactional and clear, and the packages are really clear, like even if you're a career coach and you always sell a five session package, this is what it looks like. You might have a video descriptor breaking it down for people, but you could totally put those prices out there if it's just very clear and packaged up.

    Brea: Yep. And you know, the way that I when I have had prices on my website, Lisa, it's been for for those reasons. It's been here's my full 34 debrief. It includes the code and it includes this and it includes that. And like, that's a very easy. out of the box, put a price tag on that, you know, people can pick it off of the shelf. That makes sense to me. Like if I'm doing a public workshop where one person can buy a seat, then a hundred percent be like, Hey, one seat costs this much and click here to buy, you know? Yeah.

    Lisa: Yeah. That would be silly to not list prices in that case. Right. Yeah. And I think the higher ticket and the bigger, and more complex the engagement could be, the more it would lean you toward not listing prices because there could be all kinds of things. And without the conversation, it would be difficult to scope that out.

    Brea: Yeah, definitely.

    Lisa: Yeah. I mean, we have reasons to do it and reasons not to do it. And actually, I think our decisions have reflected our business model. My favorite kind of customer over the years was the retreat or the team summit kickoff, one giant meeting that they have once a year. And it is more of a one-off. So they only need to know factors. It would be like, here's how much it costs for the facilitation fee. Here's how much it costs for travel. Here's how much the assessments cost. And that is something that I can make formulaic that they could figure out on their own from coming to the website. And it is more transactional. And what you're describing is more relational, long term, and a little more complex and does warrant a call.

    Brea: Yeah. I think there's an element of trust as well. I think if someone doesn't know you and they just come to your website, that's the first time that they are seeing you. You're going to put a price tag out there. Make sure you have a video of you. Give them a reason to fall in love with you. You know, show them some of your work. Show them your personality. Make sure that your website is communicating things that help them understand why that price tag is what it is. If you're not going to do that in a call, you can do that on your website, but you don't want to just put a price tag out there and let it hang by itself. You want to make sure your website is communicating the things that you would communicate on a call, just in a different way.

    Lisa: Yeah, I think that's a good litmus test. If you find yourself on calls saying the same thing over and over and over and over, then make a video saying the thing so that when they come to your call, they're way more prepared. And you've said, be sure to watch this video before coming to the call. And there, there's a process there. So I think that is a good one that can save a lot of time and make the actual conversation much, much richer. And then you have the price tag kind of conversation as well. So for example, I have a handful of $10 activity guides. I'm not going to make a video for $10. It's $10. It's a thoughtless $10, right? But then I also have sold $300,000 proposals, and those warrant a conversation, obviously, and a relationship. So those are going to have more. That makes total sense. And if somebody's asking me about a $10 guide, I mean, look, you've got to be able to just spend $10, that's not going to be a high touch item. On the higher ones, then if somebody wants a range, and because some people do, they come in and they say, just give me some idea before we spend a lot of time together. Because that is if it's a cold prospect, and it's inbound, sometimes that is people's perspective.

    Brea: Yep. And I think that $10 whatever you're selling on your website, that's a great example of a way to build trust, right? Before they're ready to get on a call, they're investing that time with you. Maybe they aren't ready. It feels too far down the road. You don't get married on the first date, you know? Like that's a way for them to get to know you too. So it doesn't have to be a video. It doesn't have to be free. It could be something that's paid and we have other episodes that talk about that too. Also keeping in mind who your ideal client is, you know, the Gen Z's, Millennials, we want prices. We want clear expectations. We want lots of information. Especially Gen Zs, like it's uncomfortable for them to pick up a phone and call someone and have a conversation. You know, like they didn't grow up with that the same way that we did. And so starting with a Zoom call or a call feels very, very far from where they are and the way that they shop. So remembering, you know, who is it that you're reaching out to and creating a process that fits them is just as important as making sure that you're comfortable with your process as well.

    Lisa: I think that's hugely important. And I'll end with a slice of audience. So you're talking who your audience is in terms of generation. If I talk about who the audience is in terms of role, If I say, for example, you're a meeting planner and you come to my site and I listed prices on my website. Let's say you listed a speech of $4,000. Meeting planners who see $10,000 and $50,000 speakers all the time, they might actually get concerned that that's too low. And meanwhile, we have speakers, trainers, coaches who are like, I don't want to put it out there. It's going to be too high. It'll scare people away. It can also scare people away if it's too low. So know who your audience is and what kind of buyer they are and what kind of prices they've been exposed to. And of course, you get to know it more over time. And you learn who your audience is more over time as well. And if you just don't know, like, I don't know, it could be corporate, it could be a meeting planner, maybe a bureau is looking for some other people to take on and they walk by your website and you have your price listed at $4,000 and they say, eh, too low. And they scoot right on by. So I just think I'll end with that part because people are usually concerned about listing prices because they don't want to scare people away being too high, but the opposite can also be true and is often true. So that would be a vote to be cautious of listing prices and potentially doing a range. if you don't know your audiences.

    Brea: Yeah, I love that. Maybe you charge different prices depending on the audience. Maybe you have a nonprofit price and a corporate price or if someone's paying out of pocket for themselves as an individual versus they're paying with a corporate expense account. There are lots of reasons why you might want to have some flexibility in your prices so you don't want to list them because you want to have a call to figure out kind of where they're coming from and how to best price to them.

    Lisa: Okay, I have one more. I said it was my last thought. But I have one final thought. Oh, no. I have one more final thought, which is this is for back to my original vote of putting prices on your website. And this is a primary reason I list prices on my website. People do not have an attention span. And they don't want to work hard for the relationship. And I think that willingness to work hard early on is lower before you've built a relationship with each other. So if you won't tell them any information about you, they might just move on and look for somebody who will give them more information upfront and not try to hide it or put them into a sales funnel because they feel it as a technique. So I'm just going to throw that out there as a final reason you might consider actually listing your prices or at minimum a range.

    Brea: Yeah, that transparency builds trust quickly, right? The fact that you can be upfront about what your prices are and what you offer feels authentic and good to people. Did we actually come to any kind of conclusion or did we just say, here's a bunch of thoughts?

    Lisa: I think it's here's a bunch of thoughts but we did give them a lot of thoughts to consider and I think they'll find themselves somewhere on the continuum and at least we're giving them some of the decision criteria so that they can feel good about the choice they make.

    Brea: Yeah, I would love to hear from the listeners in the next Lead Through Strengths podcast meetup. Come on, join me and other listeners to discuss, do you list your prices on your website? If so, why? If not, why not? I'd love to talk about that. So head to brearoper.com/leadthroughstrengths and you can get the invite for our next meetup.

    Lisa: That sounds great. And for tools for coaches, that's my membership where I give people access to all of my tools behind the scenes, anything they've ever seen on my website, structures, et cetera. So if you want to take any of the, um, wording and, uh, maybe the forms that lead people through the pricing decisions, the logistics and the conversations that happen that lead people through pricing, et cetera. If you are a member and you're listening, then holler at me and I'll make sure you have access to those as templates. So you're not starting from scratch. Awesome. All right.

    Well, I guess our call to action is, should you list your prices? Maybe, maybe not, but make sure you've had that consideration and you're deciding to do it or not do it based on some of the factors that we threw out in this episode.

    Brea: I love it. Use your agency, you know, make a good decision. And also remember, you can always change your mind. Just try it, see what happens and then adjust accordingly.

    Lisa: It's words on a website. All you do is go into a text editor and change it. It's such an easy thing that we overlook. We make a big deal about it, but you can just turn it on, turn it off.

    Brea: And the answer can be both. I think that's also what we're saying is for some things, list your price. Absolutely. No question. If it's $10, put the price on there, let people buy it. Like you don't need to have a conversation.

    And on the same website, you can have other offerings where it says, inquire for more information, or call for a custom quote, or packages start at this, or typically people invest this dollar amount to this dollar amount. I mean, it doesn't have to be a yes or no for your entire website. You can decide per offering or per page or whatever you want to do. You've got the power. It's getting kind of hectic.

    Lisa: Is that the same song?

    Brea: I have no idea.

    Lisa: I think that's a little thing in the background. It's getting kind of hectic, but I don't know. We'll have to look it up and see. Is it one song or two songs?

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 179 - Pricing Your Services As a Coach or Facilitator

If there’s one question I get from almost every coach I coach, it’s this: how do I know what to charge? That’s why we’ve dedicated 🎧 this episode to a topic that resonates with so many of us in the coaching, training, and speaking industries: pricing your services.

In this episode, we explore various pricing strategies and how they can impact your business. Of course, we also discuss the importance of aligning your pricing with your personal values and strengths. We also talk about the value of adding more to your offers instead of slashing prices, and how to scope down services to meet client budgets. Plus, we sprinkle in some fun anecdotes and practical tips to help you navigate your pricing journey. 

So, whether you're just starting out, or are looking to adjust your rates, this episode is packed with valuable nuggets to help you price with confidence!

🌟

    • Understand Your Pricing Strategy: There are things to consider basing your pricing strategy on, including cost, the market, client value, and more. Each has its pros and cons, so it's essential to find the one that aligns with your business goals and personal values.

    • Add Value Instead of Discounting: Instead of offering discounts, consider adding more value to your services. This could be in the form of additional sessions, resources, or exclusive content that enhances the client's experience and justifies your pricing.

    • Experiment and Adapt: Pricing isn't set in stone. It's okay to experiment with your rates and adjust them based on market feedback and your evolving business needs. Remember, you can always change the numbers on your website or pricing documents as you learn what works best.

    • Align Pricing with Your Strengths: Your unique talents and strengths should inform your pricing strategy. Whether you prioritize accessibility, customization, or maximizing impact, ensure your pricing reflects what you can sustainably deliver while keeping you fulfilled.

    • Offer Multiple Options: Presenting clients with different pricing tiers or packages can help them see the value in your services and choose what fits their budget. This approach not only anticipates budget constraints but also opens the door for future collaborations.

    • Market-Based Pricing: Conduct Market Research
      Spend time researching what competitors in your niche/industry are charging for similar services. Create a list of at least three competitors and note their pricing strategies to help you position your own services effectively.

    • Values-Based Pricing: Define Your Value Proposition
      Write down the unique value you bring to your clients. Consider how your services can lead to specific results for them. Use this information to inform your values-based pricing strategy.

    • Create a Pricing Experiment: Set a timeline (ex. 3 months) to test a new pricing strategy. Track client responses and sales. Be prepared to adjust your prices based on the feedback and results you gather.

    • Develop Value-Added Offers: Identify at least two ways to add value to your services without discounting. For example, consider offering a free follow-up session for clients who book a package, or providing additional resources like e-books or webinars when the client pays for the package in full up front.

    • Draft Three Different Pricing Packages: Create three different versions of your Signature Service (essentially the same service, but scoped up or down to hit different price points). For instance, if your Signature Offer is a Half-Day Workshop, maybe your lowest price point could include a basic virtual package, your “mid” price point includes the standard in-person package, and your top-tier price includes the in-person workshop, plus a few extras. Present these options to potential clients to give them choices that fit their budget and needs.

  • Lisa: I'm Lisa. 

    Brea: I'm Brea. 

    Lisa: And today's topic, I'm going to introduce by asking you a question, Brea.

    Brea: Okay, hang on. Oh, I'm stretching. Okay.

    Lisa: Okay, I'm ready. Ready. Ready. Get ready. You're at the supermarket. Okay. You're in the meat section and you find some chicken and it has a big red tag on it and it says 70% off.

    Brea: Hell no. Sorry. Run the other way.

    Lisa: Okay, so today's topic is pricing. Pricing your services. Okay, what's the difference? And I am bringing this up because some people's pricing strategy when they get into a coaching, training, speaking business is just, I don't know what else to do, so I'm going to come in low so that it's comfortable for everyone.

    But sometimes they come in and they feel like the 70% off chicken package. But they don't realize that's how they're coming off to clients, so I'm just bringing this up to frame the idea of pricing your services.

    There are a lot of ways to go about pricing your services. It is a number one question that comes up, especially at the beginning of a coaching, training, speaking business, but also along the way. Should I raise my prices? Where's the right price? getting enough business because I'm at the wrong place in my price for my market.

    So we're going to explore all kinds of things around pricing, some related to mindset, some related to strengths, and some just basic pricing strategy kind of thoughts to get you grounded in different ways you could go about pricing.

    Brea: This is gold. Chef's kiss, like, I don't know if I've ever talked to another coach or another business owner who hasn't had this question. How do I price my services? What do I charge, right? I mean, everyone is asking this question. I see it in the Facebook groups, online, all the time. I mean, yes. Okay, let's go.

    Lisa: So I remember when I was working on my MBA, we were talking about all kinds of businesses, not just service businesses and not just small businesses. What are some pricing strategies? And the ones I remember having really good discussions around, let me just kind of rattle off the things I can remember.

    One is, you could position yourself as a low-cost leader. Think about this, this is the coach who probably is like, I want my prices to be accessible for all, I want to never lose a deal because I'm charging too much, those kind of things.

    Brea: Yep.

    Lisa: We have market based price. This is the one that I've chosen. And that is you find the market based on what customers expect and are used to what your competitors charge. There's a finding of the market that can be a challenge, but I would say that market based pricing, just trying to kind of fit in somewhere in the middle of the market.

    Brea: Yep.

    Lisa: There's premium pricing. hey, I'm going to be viewed as luxury, top tier, only the best can afford this, and only the best service is going to get delivered. There's a cost plus kind of version, and yeah. No. Like, OK, let's think about all the input costs it takes to run a business. If you had a physical product, this would be a lot more obvious because people would be like, oh, I see. If I'm going to build a house and I find a cost plus builder, they're going to take all the materials, all the labor, and then they're going to put their builder fee on top, right? That's really simple when it's a product, even though that's a service. But there are tangible parts to that product. So for coaches and trainers and speakers, that's really interesting because you're like, what are my input costs? Well, it's my labor when I'm solo, but what if I know I want to grow my business into the future with a robust team behind me? Now I have to project what are my costs. I have software costs. I have office costs. I have hardware costs. And then we typically have a higher margin business, so the plus part of cost plus is usually higher for a service business. But another element I would like to layer on to this cost plus is, are you pricing thinking for the future? Because if you price yourself today as an absolute solo practitioner, like freelance style, and then three years from now or two years from now, you decide you're going to bring on three team members and you're going to go move into an office, your costs are going to skyrocket and your margins are going to tank if you don't raise your prices. So can you think of your pricing from the future building out how you project your team to be? Because those are the kind of clients you're going to need to attract who can afford the service you offer as a bigger team.

    Brea: Yep. Yeah, and I would add values based pricing. What value do you bring? Not what is the cost of goods or what is the cost of your time or whatever, but what what value does your customer see in that? This is something that I think a lot of people struggle to do if they see a big divide between, you know, like the value is a lot higher than what than what the service provider feels it actually costs them to deliver. So yeah, but I love Values Based Pricing.

    Lisa: I was just talking to a sales speaker the other day. He's so good at all of this. And he was saying, he's like in the $50,000 range for a speech. And the customer was like, oh my gosh, for an hour of your time. And he's like, would you like it to take a lot longer for me to help you get the results? So there's always that. And then when you said values, I wasn't actually, my brain didn't go to results. It went to values like our personal values. And I think that's another layer that would be worth adding on because I think you could separate that out from low cost leader. Like some people are, have a loss leader product or service. Like I definitely do this with low ticket offers and have specific products or services offered that get people in the door. And some people have that low cost leader just as a, what they do. And that's a strategy. But other people from a personal values level will say, I want to be accessible because I want every person to have access to this thing. And it, it comes from their personal values and That is a whole pricing strategy as well. And I just want to add on, if you're going to use that pricing strategy, it's fine, especially if those are your personal values. Great if your pricing strategy aligns with your personal values. And be sure you do the math. You're going to have to serve more customers if you offer the super low price and you're accessible to no one if you go out of business. So just do the math to make sure you can make that viable. I love it.

    Brea: Yeah, I think all of these are really good for people to consider. And they're really, I don't know, I think maybe in some situations there might be a right answer, but most of the time the right answer is with the one that's right for you, right? So how many times can I say right in the same sentence? Okay.

    Lisa: But the point hits home. Yes. Because it is true. There isn't a right pricing strategy. So I'm just going to double down on it and say it more. There isn't a right way. And I think that's what makes it hard. People say, I'm in this. I have no idea what the price is. How would I even find the market? Where do I find the right price? You're going to probably have to have an experiment and or a lot of research to try to find your spot. And it's fine if you don't land it on day one. I mean, if you're making a price list on your website or a PDF, all you have to do is go change some digits with your keyboard and you can change the price to update it. It's an experiment. Yeah.

    Brea: Yeah, that's good. That's a good reminder. Other things to consider. Consider your talents. Consider your strengths. If you are a person who needs consistency, who needs to know that you've got some mailbox money coming in, OK, then price accordingly. If your talents need some kind of recurring revenue, whether that's a membership fee or some kind of recurring revenue is what I'm talking about, then do that. Follow your talents and price accordingly.

    Lisa: Well, do tell us about your talents. How have you followed your talents and how have they shown up in your pricing strategy?

    Brea: So I resonate with the, I want something that's accessible to everyone. It's something that I feel really passionate about. Personal and professional development should be available to all. It's not something that should be a luxury for some. And yeah, so there's some of those relational talent themes that really leads that for me. And at the same time, I want maximum impact, right? So I have a lot of influencing talent. So I'm not satisfied filling my calendar with like one-on-one coaching conversations because I'm not able to reach as many people and I'm not able to make as big of an impact. So for me, that means having different offers and pricing in a way that the majority of my revenue comes in from bigger ticket items. And I build in some pro bono work. I have a certain amount of sessions, you know, or maybe, maybe one offer is priced as a BOGO where I've done this successfully before. And it feels so good to me to go to a corporate client and say, Hey, When you purchase a workshop for your team, also you get to choose from this list of nonprofits in your area or charities in your area, and I'll go do a workshop for them at no cost or at low cost or whatever. So it's like a pay it forward type of thing. I've done applications where people who are in a job search or a life transition or just find themselves in a place where money is tight, but they really want the coaching and they want the tools, great. So they can fill out an application to put some skin into the game. And there's a certain number of those sessions, those hours that I've budgeted for that month, and that's available. So I think we can price in a way that that makes it possible to make me feel fulfilled, you know, and also still put food on the table, you know, and money in the bank.

    Lisa: Mm-hmm. Oh, I'm totally feeling your includer and connectedness there, that ripple effect. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah, what about you? Okay, let's pick Strategic certainly shows up. It's my number one and it is always looking ahead, trying to make clean, clear decisions. And so it definitely guided my process of being in the squarely in the market pricing type of strategy. I would say on the pricing side, one that gets in my way is individualization. because I love customizing.

    Brea: Yeah, we both are in the doghouse for this like all the time.

    Lisa: Kind of forget at times to charge tailoring fees, which people totally expect if you're like, oh, it's a premium bespoke version. It's customized, it's tailored. they totally expect to pay for that. But sometimes I get just ahead of myself with the excitement about customizing. So if that happens, the way I make up for it and the way my strengths come in to say, all right, now, how do I redeem myself to myself? Because to the client, it's amazing to myself. Then I pull out Maximizer and I'm like, OK, if I'm creating this alternate version or the specialty down this one path or rabbit hole that they wanted to go down, I will now create a digital product in that area or a whole thing that now I can offer on the menu of services, so to speak, so that other people can get the benefit out of it and I can resell the work that I did for that one client to someone else and make something out of that tailoring time because I could lose myself. for eight hours tailoring and not charged for that. So I think that those would be a tours of how my strengths show up in pricing, maximizer, individualization, and strategic showing up the most.

    Brea: I hear that. I still hear that. And something that you're really great at is scaling. I think your brain just naturally thinks that way. We've talked several times on the podcast about adding a zero or taking away a zero. So that's what I'm talking about is thinking strategically, thinking about how to scale. And I wonder if sometimes for me, if I'm thinking that way, I can make things too complex. The individualization or the strategic, the ideation will come in and say, we could do this. Or if you prefer, we could do this. Or we could set it up like this. And we could start here and then we could get here and then we could do this. And then in five years, we'll be here. And all the client hears is like, wait, what? Do you ever find that or is that just me?

    Lisa: Well, okay. Focus comes right in, number six. futuristic right behind it. And so the way those two come together, because you dream into the future. And if you add an ideation, the way you just described it can sound like all the ideas and mine comes in like, okay, here's where we're going into the future. what are we going to choose? And it, it's this constraint thing that comes through. And luckily, I have that one Executing talent in my Top 14. And I would say Strategic very much is a prioritizer as well. So between Strategic and Focus, it's like, I have a million ideas, and I would like to create a dozen products that would be really fun and that is not the most productive use of my time because i could easily go out of business just creating stuff that i never get up on the website never sell never create messaging or marketing for And I do think I'm not the only one like that. I think there are so many coaches and trainers and speakers who are, we're into the craft, we're into the thing that we came here to deliver. And it's really fun to create resources and create products and create things and have these new ideas. And The easy thing to forget is if it doesn't have a price tag attached, if it isn't getting sold, it's just getting created, it's not keeping us in the state of a viable business. So I'm really fortunate for the strength of focus and strategic to be my prioritizers and say, no matter how fun that is, can it be priced? Can it be marketed? Can it be sold? Can it be put into an efficient system? And if not, I'm just going to table it until a client's ready to pay for it.

    Brea: I love it. So this is reminding me at the top of our conversation, I was thinking, we started talking about discounts. Okay. Can we just go there? I just want to talk about this.

    Lisa: I think we probably should. I mean, we started off talking about 70% off chicken and everybody likes to talk about discounts when pricing comes up.

    Brea: So here's the thing. I learned this in high school when I started selling Mary Kay. That's a whole nother podcast episode. But instead of offering it a discount, if you feel like you need to or you want to, you're insecure that you don't think the market's going to bear the price, whatever your reason is. consider, instead of offering a discount, consider adding more value. So instead of saying, I'll take this percent off or I'll take this amount off, say, look, this is the price, but if you buy four sessions, right, or my favorite is if you pay in full upfront, figure out what your ask is, right? Then, if you do this for me, then I will give you this extra thing, an extra session, or maybe you offer a discount then, but only offer a discount if they have given you something that's valuable. It's so easy for me to offer a small percentage discount if they pay in full up front for their workshop. You know, that means I don't have to chase them down. That means I have all of the money that I need to go buy all the supplies. I mean, it's just so much easier. It's worth a little bit of a discount for me. But my favorite thing is instead of discounting, add more value.

    Lisa: I love this topic so much. Okay. You can add more, add more value. Here's another example of add more value. I work with associations sometimes to deliver a speech and they're usually a little more formulaic. They know what they pay for speakers. Yeah. And if you don't fit the market rate, they'll be like, Oh, you're over market on this thing. And so there's a whole deal there. And the way that I've overcome that almost every time is offering webinar to the audience. And so, like, for example, I'm going to do an in-person speech somewhere and my rate is higher than the market rate they were hoping for. Now I'm offering a one-hour webinar. It could be a pre-event. It can be a post-event. And look what's so beautiful about this is that so many times they'll be like, oh, can we offer this to our greater audience, all of our association members, instead of that one state?

    Brea: Can you give me free marketing? Sure.

    Lisa: Yeah. Yes. You just nailed it, Brea. And that's what I'm doing to add more value because they need to justify to somebody else internally that this person is worth more worth. I'm putting in quotes more financially than this other person because they're offering this other stuff. So be thinking of what are these add ons you could bring. And sometimes it's also the line item. Like if we pay for A book, or a souvenir-y thing, or an e-book, or you have a video, or you do a pre-something or other. Just think of all the things you could do to add value. It's a huge category. The opposite, I have a whole other category to bring up. Tell me if you've done this. Nope. No matter what, I've been given this budget. It can't go over this amount. I only have this to work with. It doesn't matter how much you sweeten it up. Now, of course, they wouldn't say it like that to you.

    Brea: I mean, you know, yeah, okay.

    Lisa: We work with so many good clients, but they would just be like, sorry, Charlie, this is what I got. Then can you scope it down? So if they're saying, let's do an in-person and you priced it at $7,500 and they don't have that, they say, I'm sorry, I love you so much. You are my favorite of the three people we're talking to, but I only have $3,500. to work with? What if you then scope it down? What if it becomes virtual training? What if you have a version, if let's say you are a CliftonStrengths trainer, and now you do a version without assessments instead of with assessments, and you kick off the concept of a strengths-based focus? There are so many small things you can do to scale down, to scope down, And then you're getting the price that you like your price instead of the other. So there's another option as well. How can you scope down to meet their budget?

    Brea: I love it. And I've done both. And yes, yes, yes. I think also what's coming to mind is in the proposal offering multiple options at the same time. So I'm curious, Lisa, if you do this or not. I always offer three different price points so that It kind of is anticipating this conversation, right? And it's literally a side-by-side comparison so they can see, look, here's the outcome that you're looking for. Here's three different ways that we can deliver it. One is virtual. One is in person, right? Let's just do two for the ease of conversation today. they can see side-by-side the price difference for that and they understand why they're going to pay more for me to come in person or, you know, the scope down is, like, they can understand why that's less, right? And maybe one is the top tier includes all the yummy swag, just different things that someone may or may not want to include in their bottom line. I think having different options from the beginning allows them to see what is possible and decide where they want to spend their money. That's what I do. Do you do something similar or do you always start with one thing and then go up or down depending on what they say?

    Lisa: I love the approach. I absolutely do it. I love having options. I love having options that paint a future vision so that they can see ways you can work together in the future. They can see where you go from here. And even if it's aspirational to start, often they do come back a year later and say, okay, now we see that grander thing and we're ready for it. So I love it strategically and also just to give them choices because a lot of times they don't realize they have the choices.

    Brea: Yeah, and I think I agree. And this is something that I need to work on because we've already talked about this. I see way far into the future. I want to have an impact. And so it's hard for me to just be like, sure, I'll come do a little one-off event for you. I try to sell them the big, full, major impact. But I'm talking about something different. I'm thinking about like, the same thing, not different offers, not like a five-year contract versus a one-off event. I'm talking about a one-off event at three different price points.

    Lisa: Mm-hmm.

    Brea: Yeah.

    Lisa: Okay. Sure. Yeah. And I don't do that as much as I do, though, for sure, having one grand division included in there. And I wouldn't want to get too crazy and give them five versions so I could accomplish it all. So it would depend on the needs assessment call and what comes up. Yeah, totally. If it feels like, hey, we are going to move forward. We're doing this kickoff event. And it's like, is this virtual? Is this in-person? And does it include coaching? Or is it only group? Like something really simple, just those versions.

    Brea: Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I love this. So I keep thinking about how the different talent themes, the different domains of talent even affects how we price. I wonder if the relationship builders out there, relater, developer, maybe includer, are these themes looking for longer term clients that they can grow with over time? Are you looking for pricing structures that that are maybe lower client volume, less people, and higher retention, right? So that you can kind of stay with them. What pricing structure makes sense to honor your desire to work with a client in that way?

    Lisa: I bet your theory is really strong for people with relationship themes. It's not necessarily how I think about the original contract, but I do think it brings the people back for referrals. It brings them back for repeat business later. So I do think it proves the theory in a little different way for me.

    Brea: Something else that comes to mind for me, I really, really like having flexible pricing, flexible offers. You know, there's that individualization, maybe that includer, maybe that empathy. You know, if I can tell that someone really doesn't have the money, there are lots of ways to pull on my heartstrings, you know? So I like customizing and like having flexibility, knowing that I can charge one thing today and And I can change my mind and charge more or less later. Right. And I think that that comes from a lot of my flexible talent themes, whereas the talents that I don't have might want some more structured, stable, you know, pricing structures.

    Lisa: Yeah, I love that you're bringing up the domains and that you raise the idea of each of our individual strengths and where they would come in, tendencies and how we think about pricing, tendencies and how we lean toward one of these pricing strategies or another and just being free to honor what feels great to us, what feels really aligned with us in our natural talents. And I don't think that's a conversation that would usually come up with pricing. And if I gave closing thoughts, I just feel like the beauty is what feels right to you. You have to start somewhere. And sometimes it is the swag. And excuse my French, but sometimes it is strategic, wild-ass guess. And that is where you start, because you don't know where the market is. And then you layer in that. where do my strengths, where do they want to be, what feels aligned with me, what feels an integrity with me as a person and the business I want to build. And then, you know, if it's something that you're talking to me about, Lisa, I'm going to be saying, do the math. Now, check it against the math. Does this work to create a viable business? Because it is easy to overlook that part and then get way into it and realize, oh my gosh, I'm working like mad and I work so many hours and now I'm in an 80 hour a week job and I'm not making ends meet and that's just because you didn't do the math of the strategy. So math it out at the beginning, make sure it'll work and all those pieces come together beautifully and the experiments turn into what is a beautiful aligned business.

    Brea: I love it and also I don't work like that. You know, when I hear you and I'm like, yes, that sounds so smart. And I also hear, but how will I know? The numbers change all the time. What the market can bear changes. So I don't do market based pricing because I expect it to change and I don't think I can count on it. And for me, my priority is charging what my strengths can sustain. the market may or may not sustain that price. You know, they may or may not be able to bear that price, but what can I continue to deliver? What can I continue to sustain as far as what I'm offering and what prices, you know, what do I need to charge to sustain me, my energy, my happiness and my business, you know, my profit?

    Lisa: Yeah. And that is the beauty of this show. Right? We don't agree. And it's so awesome. You don't run your business like I run my business. You don't have the same brain that I have. And we both have had long-term businesses. And we're giving people what, yeah, here's the reality. Here's what she's done. Here's what I've done. And we do it differently. And both of them work. And that is so inspiring because you have choices.

    Brea: It's amazing. I mean, it brings us full circle to the beginning of the conversation, right? There's no right way to price except what's right for you. So really, it sounds cheesy, you know, but it really is true. So be honest with yourself and figure out what works for you. Go for it.

    Lisa: Is there a tagline for that game show, The Price is Right? It feels like we should do something cheesy. What's the… That's hilarious. Okay. Now I remember that sound from my grandparents' house.

    Brea: Yes.

    Lisa: Always watched it.

    Brea: I used to watch Prices Right as a kid. It was like my favorite thing when I was sick and had to stay at home. Prices Right, 10 o'clock a.m., boom, on the couch, I am there, you know? I auditioned for, I don't think I did the Prices Right, but I did audition for Wheel of Fortune once, and that was super fun.

    Lisa: You did, ooh. I mean, communication, words, sounds right. Yeah, yeah. And did it happen? What was it like?

    Brea: No, I didn't make it, but it was really fun. I would love to be a game show host. This is like my true dream life would be to host a game show.

    Lisa: I could see it. I could absolutely see it. Yeah. Yeah.

    Brea: Or talk show that has a game show portion. Oh my gosh, let's go.

    Lisa: Well, then, I mean, you could get some practice. We have a podcast, which is kind of like a talk show, and if you added a game show element, which you'll have to noodle on, we could do it.

    Brea: Oh, my gosh. Okay, people, come to the podcast meetup. We're having a game show. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. We're going to figure it out. Come on. BreaRoper.com to get the invite. Boom.

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 178 - Battling Money Blocks as a Business Owner

In this episode, we tackle the often-taboo topic of…money, money, money…mo-ney! 💰 Specifically, money blocks – those pesky limiting beliefs that can hold us back in business. We share our personal experiences with money narratives that shaped our views on wealth and success. From feeling guilty about charging for work we love, to the fear of being perceived as "slimy" when selling, we get real about how these beliefs can impact our businesses. 

You’ll hear us discuss the importance of recognizing these narratives and how they can affect your mindset and performance. If you've ever felt stuck in your relationship with money or unsure about how to confidently ask for what you deserve, this episode is for you! Join us as we unpack these themes and encourage you to check in on your own money mindset. Let’s break those blocks together! 

🌟

    • Understanding Money Blocks: Money blocks are limiting beliefs and behaviors that can hinder your ability to earn and ask for money. Recognizing these blocks is the first step toward overcoming them.

    • Personal Narratives Matter: Money narratives shaped by our upbringing can influence adult perceptions of wealth and success.

    • Selling is Helping: Selling doesn’t have to be a slimy or uncomfortable act. Instead, when you focus on providing solutions and helping others, you can shift your mindset around sales.

    • The Importance of Mindset: Mindset plays a crucial role in your business success. Feeling confident and positive about what you offer can significantly impact how others perceive you and your services.

    • Undercharging: Many people assume they need to charge lower rates until they gain more experience. However, it’s essential to recognize your worth and not undervalue your skills, as there are always clients willing to pay for quality services.

    • Identify Your Money Blocks: Reflect on your personal beliefs and narratives around money. Consider how these beliefs may be affecting your business decisions and overall mindset. Write down any limiting beliefs you recognize.

    • Challenge Undercharging: If you find yourself undercharging for your services, evaluate your qualifications and experience. Research market rates for your industry and consider adjusting your pricing to reflect your true value.

    • Reframe Selling: Shift your perspective on selling from being a slimy or uncomfortable experience to viewing it as an opportunity to help others. Practice articulating how your services provide solutions and benefits to potential clients.

    • Invest in Yourself: Assess your willingness to invest in your personal and professional development. Identify areas where you can seek coaching or training to enhance your skills and confidence in selling.

    • Join a Supportive Community: Engage with others who are also working through their money narratives. Consider joining Lisa’s “Tools for Coaches” or Brea’s podcast listener meetups to share experiences and strategies for overcoming money blocks.

  • Lisa: I'm Lisa. 

    Brea: I'm Brea. 

    Lisa: And today, oh, we're talking about money, money, money, money.

    null: Money.

    Brea: I was like, oh, this is so high.

    Lisa: I got my silly voice on. I can hit the high notes with my silly voice. Money. 

    Brea: I love it. 

    Lisa: Money blocks.

    Brea: Oh, money blocks. Okay, I am here for this. Yes. This is real, folks.

    Lisa: This is real. It's getting real. What are money blocks? I mean, let's say I would define this as limiting beliefs around money. I would define it as behaviors you make in your business that are driven from a money narrative that may not be serving you or your business? Yeah, that's good. How would you define these?

    Brea: I mean, maybe what blocks me from making money? Hey, yeah. Yeah. What blocks me from making money, from asking for money, from selling? Yeah. What are those blocks?

    Lisa: Well, you said it's about to get real. So if we're going to talk business owner money blocks, why don't we just get open and share the ones we've dealt with personally so that people can see we're humans who deal with stuff too. And then we can happily share, since we've both worked with many coaches, some of the trends in the narratives that we hear from our clients.

    Brea: Yeah. I mean, gosh, already I'm feeling it, you know? Like money touches everything. Money makes the world go round, right? I mean, love makes the world go round, but really money makes the world go round, you know? And if you have it, it affects your mindset. And if you don't have it, it affects your mindset. And if you need it, it affects your mindset, which mindset affects performance. Like there's just, so much where the money block, it's not the money. Money is not the thing. The selling, not the thing. It's something underneath that that blocks us from asking for it or from believing that we deserve it. That's what comes to my mind first, is that it's not about the money. There's something else underneath that is the block.

    Lisa: Yeah. Oh, yeah. As you said that, I was thinking of acceptance, and I know that has been a thing in my career with the family that I grew up in. Now, my parents were luckily not wealth haters or anything like that, so I didn't get those money block narratives where I would think I'm an evil person if I made money. But I did grow up in a pretty poor area and it was not going to be celebrated if somebody was successful. And I do, I live a charmed life right now. I have a couple of houses. I live in Texas part-time. I live in Colorado part-time. I live in the RV when the weather isn't great in either of those. I mean, I live an amazing life. And I really, as I was coming into that and coming into success, I did a lot of things to minimize it and I would always be the one, like if I went back to visit my family in the Midwest, they would be like, did you fly or drive? And I knew the correct answer was drive because flying was something people did when they had money. And so if I flew, I would say, oh, I have points because work paid for so many trips. So, I would minimize to be accepted. I didn't really realize, of course, at the time I was trying to be accepted, but I was trying to give the acceptable answer. And what I realize now on the other side of it is that the narrative that was the money block for me is probably some version of toil is respectful, but eating bonbons by the pool is not. So, any version of like, oh, must be nice, you can just go hang out over there without the hard work. So, this thing of toil and hard work, it's been really difficult to shake because it's always felt good to work hard, work long. And there's been a resistance over the years to figure out like, what would the easy button be? What would it look like to not have to work so hard for money? I didn't really even want to explore that for a long time. And I think that's why, that acceptance. So that's been my money block, probably the biggest one over my lifetime.

    Brea: Oh, there's so much there. There's so much there. I relate with that so much. Also from the Midwest. Hey, Kansas City. Hey. Also from a hardworking family. I'm the oldest of eight kids. Everybody that listens to the podcast knows that I have an enormous Catholic family. My dad worked and my mom stayed home. So one income for all of those mouths and five boys, four of them were teenagers at the same time. So, I mean, I'm painting the picture, right? Okay. I mean, I don't remember a time when we felt that we didn't have enough, right? But I knew that we didn't have a lot, you know, and I knew that we had to be careful. And my mom is amazing. at what she was able to do with so little. I've learned so many hacks from her as far as how to save and how to ration and how to just like get the most out of everything. And also that kind of messes with your psyche a little bit, you know, when now as an adult, I really want to have this abundance mindset. And I can tell sometimes that that scarcity mindset that I grew up with and just because money was scarce, you know, still like creeps in as an adult. So it's interesting. Yeah.

    Lisa: How do you see it creep into things you say in your business, ways you act in your business? How do you see it really showing up? Things you say?

    Brea: Well, you know, the thing that's coming to mind is actually before I started my business, when I was a missionary for four years, I fundraised my entire income. And that was so crazy, going to people and asking them to give me their paycheck, basically, right? A part of their paycheck to pay me to do my work. Such a, such a strange, thing. And I remember it bothered me so much, hello communication, where words really matter, when people would say, oh, we just can't, or we don't have it, we don't have the money. And I just remember thinking, yes, you do. Everyone does. You just are choosing to spend it somewhere else, you know, and not in a not in a judgment way. Like, sorry if it came out that way, because that's not the intention of like, you should give it to me. Just didn't like. Yeah. Like we all have money. So. I think hearing other people tell me that every day for four years really made me aware of when I used those words, where I found myself making excuses and not really taking agency in my own choices. So, in a lot of ways, but especially around money.

    Lisa: Tell me about, in the clients you've worked with, what is, let's say, the number one money block you hear when they're experiencing their own narratives about money?

    Brea: Well, the same thing. We don't have the budget. Yes, you do. You just chose to use it somewhere else.

    Lisa: Yeah, exactly. I'd say my number one from the coach, trainer, speaker, business owner perspective is some version of the stereotypical slimy salesperson. where they're like, I'm totally comfortable with delivering the service that I sell. But offering the service in a sales capacity feels completely uncomfortable. And I worry about being judged. And that whole process feels totally off. That is a, in my opinion, it's a money block because it's when the money conversation comes up that everything changes in their mind and suddenly they're uncomfortable with the service they offer.

    Brea: Yeah. Why do you think that is? Like what's the thing under the thing?

    Lisa: There has to be something about being perceived and judged and maybe they have listened to sales stereotypes, like maybe they've experienced the, you know, I don't want to pick on the used car salesman, but everyone knows that metaphor where it's pushy and it's inauthentic and it's one-sided and selfish because they're just trying to line their pocket. I think there's something about that judgment, but I don't think I mean, the vast majority of coaches and trainers and speakers, we get into this work because we have some beautiful message or some beautiful mindset shift or some beautiful thing we have to offer the world and it comes from a genuine place. So then there has to be a narrative under that about how they fear being judged because I don't think they're icky. My clients aren't slimy. My clients aren't one-sided. My clients aren't all out for the money, but not out for the service. They're out to serve. Sometimes I'll ask people, they're like, I don't want to feel pushy and slimy. And I'll be like, are you a slimy person? And they're like, well, no.

    Brea: It's such an interesting conversation because we know that's true. I mean, anyone listening is like, yeah, duh, of course. But we don't feel that. It's a battle in our brains to believe that. And I wonder if part of it comes from when you are the product, as a service provider, it's me that people are buying. Perception matters because it's not just how they perceive you as a salesperson. You want them to perceive you as someone they can trust, someone that they can partner with and work with for a long time, someone that they can refer to their friends. I mean, there's so much wrapped up in how they perceive you. And it's just too easy to wrap that up with our own identity.

    Lisa: Yeah. Oh, I think the audience will really resonate with that. I just delivered a training yesterday where someone brought up exactly that point where you said, it's me. She raised that idea like, so when a no is a rejection of me, it feels like It feels that way. Right. Versus is it a fit or not? It's just a rejection that it's not a fit right now for whatever various reasons. And I think I would lead into another money block and it is this thing I hear from coaches and trainers and speakers when they're newer in the business. And it's, I'm not going to charge market rates until I'm more experienced. So there's this thing, there's this waiting, I'm not ready yet, I'm not good enough yet, some of that underlying stuff. And on one hand, I can totally appreciate it. Like, okay, if you feel like you're in the apprentice phase, charge apprentice rates, it's all great. But for a lot of people, like we're talking about someone who already spent 15 years being in talent development, they've been delivering and these amazing corporate audiences, they have a PhD in industrial organizational psychology, they're ready. They're ready. They're hedging and that thing feels comfortable to be like, I'm going to discount, I'm going to charge less, I'm going to get in. So it's always relative. Number one, if you think, oh my gosh, who am I to charge $300 for a coaching session? It's one hour of my time. When I was in corporate, if you translated my salary, it would come down to this, it would be less. You can come up with these rationalizations. And meanwhile, there's a person next door to you who is charging $3,000 for a one hour virtual training. And there's someone next door to them charging $30,000 for their program. And I bring up that relative thing. I'm always talking about adding zeros, dropping zeros. And if you really search around, I mean, there are plenty of speakers. I am not exaggerating. There are plenty of speakers who charge $30,000 for a speech. It's for 45 minutes or an hour. And people gladly exchange the money for that. So Then saying how could I charge $300 for an hour sounds absurd related to $30,000. So there's always someone relative who will be willing to charge less, who will be willing to charge more, who is presumably like more able to command those rates because of experience, exposure, whatever they've done to build their business, market their business, et cetera. So it's not a, logical thing that I'm not going to charge rates until I'm more experienced for most people. The beginner rate kind of thing. I think it's a fallacy. I think most people we work with are ready and they've been ready a long time and it's just a way to feel comfortable. And then of course you anchor your clients in those low rates forever and it's kind of brings its own things to, to, um, overcome later, which can be a pricing episode conversation.

    Brea: Yeah, undercharging is such a, that's such a big money block. And there are so many reasons why people undercharge. You know, I don't feel good enough. That sounds to me like a shadow side of responsibility or learner or, you know, some of these themes that really value excellence. And they see that there's so much more that they can learn, so many more certifications that they could have. So to you, it might seem like you're not ready, right? My experience in nonprofit spaces There's a lot of money blocks that I see from coaches who just expect, they just assume that the nonprofit can't pay or the church can't pay. Let me tell you. I've worked with some nonprofits that have more expendable income than a lot of for-profit organizations, businesses, companies, because they have to spend it every year. There's a deadline, you know? Yeah, it's interesting the blocks that we put in, whether it's because of my upbringing thinking like, oh, because we were poor, everybody's poor, right? I never had money, so I don't know that other people have money, right? If $100 feels like a lot to me, because I never saw a $100 bill until, I don't know when, but I mean,

    Lisa: But that's that relative thing. Yeah. That's right. For one person, a hundred dollar bill is a ton of money. For the next person, their parents had a hundred dollar bill dispenser. Anytime they needed it, it was just a little bit. So it depends.

    Brea: I love how you're bringing this up. You can't expect or assume because you just don't know and you don't know until you ask. And what do you say, Lisa, about asking?

    Lisa: What do I say? Do I have a saying about asking that I've forgotten? You don't ask, the answer is no. Yeah, the answer is no. Yes, I do have a saying, I forgot.

    Brea: Yeah, if you don't ask, the answer is no.

    Lisa: That's right. Oh, I love how you've twisted this into like a full continuum because I was thinking very much about that person who has that underlying I'm not worthy element, but you know, you don't realize that, but that's a lot of times that's what's underneath. this thing about not charging market rates. And you have this full continuum you've revealed all the way over to just simple assumptions. And funny enough, this came up in the same workshop I was talking about that I delivered yesterday. Somebody mentioned that very thing about nonprofits. If you've grown up in that world, you might assume no one has money. But I know personally from my business, although I didn't specialize in nonprofits, I have a lot of them on my client roster. And some of them came across as like really struggling for funds and others came across as absolutely flush with funds and would say as much and what I expressed to this person yesterday was the thing about nonprofits that's so cool is they're so used to fundraising. They're so open about saying, I don't have money for that, that if you offer your actual market rate and they don't have money for that, that's what they're going to say. They're not going to run away and say, oh, I'm going to ghost this person and never respond if you've built some rapport and they like you. They're going to say, Oh my gosh, we don't have that budget at all. We were expecting them to spend X. They tell you they're one of the most upfront markets I've ever been around. So why offer something tiny, making an assumption upfront.

    Brea: Yes. And also what I'm, in my experience, they are very upfront. They'll say, we don't have the money and I can come back and say, okay, great. Where can you get it? Because they are very comfortable with fundraising. They, that's how they get all of their money. So if they don't have it now, they have a list of, you know, thousands of donors that It's got to be one person on that list that is passionate about you know, supporting whatever it is You know talent development for for the team so it's almost easier for them to add things into the budget that aren't already there because Because they can you know, it's very different that way then different than a corporate budget. That's like locked in, you know So far in advance and there's just no No to little wiggle room, you know Yes, yeah, I think this is a fun tour.

    Lisa: I like the idea that we all Experience money we all exchange money We all have a narrative on money whether it's absolute abundance or absolute scarcity and all the things in between and they're not static. Sometimes they change depending on where we are in our lives and different phases. And it's a great one to check in on and just ask yourself, do you have any money narratives going on right now that you think are getting in the way of your life goals, your business goals, and what could it look like to work on that block?

    Brea: Yeah. So I'll summarize by, Just kind of summarizing the blocks that I think we identified, undercharging for whatever reason, a fear of selling, maybe because of rejection or even I don't know how to do it. We didn't talk about that, but I think a lot of people, they've seen it done poorly and they don't know how to do it well. So there's a fear there of selling. I would call my early comments about having a resistance to investing in yourself, investing in your business, you know, that feels luxurious when we need to just kind of cover our survival first. And then I wish we could do, maybe we'll do a whole nother episode on this idea that work has to be hard. Right, and there's so much guilt that people carry. We're making money doing something that you love and this is the core of strengths is that you can and you you should if I may should on our listeners we We should be able to do what we love every day and sometimes we feel guilty getting paid for that.

    Lisa: So Right a lot of money blocks that I heard Yeah, I would add I'm not ready. That one is kind of the undertone on the, I'm not going to charge market rate yet, but I will maybe someday in the future later.

    Brea: Yes.

    Lisa: And those who decided that selling is slimy and therefore they get a money block around it because they won't open their mind to the opposite that selling is helping.

    Brea: Yeah. So find someone else to sell for you. If really you can't get around it, then don't try. Because here's the thing is that when you show up and you aren't confident in yourself or in your business, nobody is going to buy from you. Nobody wants that, right? You are the one person that should be most confident about what you're selling. And so if you're not feeling confident for whatever reason, there are other things in your personal life that are affecting how you're feeling that day. It's important to make sure that you've slept and that you've drank water and you've moved your body and you've gotten some sunshine, like all of those things affect your energy and and how you feel and how you're thinking about yourself and your business. And that all comes into your sales calls. So mindset is a huge part of it, but make sure that you're being a good boss to yourself and you are setting yourself up for success so that you are not the money block. Get yourself out of the way.

    Lisa: Yes. And you know, I'll just, add on to your closing thought by affirming that and saying, I worked on sales teams, I worked in sales, and then later served sales teams internally in multiple ways. And look, this is a thing for sellers. It is known on all these teams. People get on a roll. They will be on fire, unstoppable. And then they'll get in a rut, and they cannot get out of the rut. And so much of it is the mindset, and it's the literal state. They're allowing themselves to stay in, whether it's a high or whether it's a low. And we can change our state in the moment. We can change the energy we bring to a room. And if you have one of these blocks about selling and you've decided it's a bad, icky thing, then every time you decide, oh, I'm flipping into sales mode. Oops, I guess I'm icky. Now your whole energy changes, your dynamic, the way you feel, the way you come across, the way they receive you, your confidence, all of that changes. Your speech patterns, they feel it. I can't hide it. Yes. This is why it's so important to get your mind right around it because if you bring that energy where it's like, you gotta buy this, it's so incredible, everyone needs this, it's amazing. That is a totally different place from like, okay, now we gotta pause and talk about the icky stuff. That totally changes the momentum and they pick up on that and their momentum changes as well. So I totally agree with that. 100%.

    Brea: This is not the place to fake it until you make it here. People see right through it, just like you have seen right through the slimy salesperson. So just be confident in what you're bringing and who you are. And if you can see sales, like Lisa said, if you can see it as an opportunity to to help to fix a problem. You're giving them a solution. You're making their life better. You're giving them the tools that they need to improve their life or their business. I mean, come at it from a strengths lens and you'll win every time.

    Lisa: You will win. Yes. Come on. Let's go. All right, if you need work on this, if you're like, I'm hearing you, but I am not there, leadthroughstrengths.com slash getcoached. I would be happy to coach you on the mindset side of it. Or tools for coaches is the other link from the main menu where you can be around other people who are constantly working on business acumen, mindset, et cetera. How about if they want to work with you, Brea?

    Brea: Yeah. Well, we've got some listeners who have been coming to these little meetups to discuss the podcast episodes. So if you'd like to talk to me and other listeners about the money blocks that you're experiencing and how to get over it, just go to the website, brea roper.com and you can sign up for the invite to those zoom meetups. Zoom, zoom, 

    Lisa: zoom, zoom, zoom on over there. 

    Brea: All right. Money, money, 

    Lisa: money.

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 177 - Being a Good Boss To Yourself as an Entrepreneur

As entrepreneurs, we often find ourselves in the dual role of both boss and employee, and it can be challenging to navigate that dynamic. In our last episode, Lisa & I talked about being a bad boss to ourselves, so this time we’re flipping the script. 

We start by remembering how, as our own boss, we have the unique opportunity to create our ideal work environment and set our own priorities. So, how do we use that to our advantage? How can we be a good boss to ourselves? 

Whether you're just starting out or looking to refine your approach, this episode is packed with insights to help you set yourself up for success by becoming the best boss you can be!

🌟

    1. Prioritize Your Life Values: One of the most empowering aspects of being your own boss is the ability to set your own priorities and values. Unlike traditional employment, where your contributions and responsibilities are often dictated by someone else, as an entrepreneur, you have the freedom to define what success looks like for you. Make the time to reflect on your life priorities. Then, align your business goals accordingly. This clarity will not only guide your decisions, but also help you stay motivated and fulfilled.

    2. Honor Your Natural Rhythms: Recognize when you're at your best, and structure your work around those times. Whether that means scheduling meetings at times that suit your energy levels or allowing yourself breaks when needed (afternoon siesta, anyone?), being attuned to your own needs can lead to greater productivity and satisfaction. Remember, you have the flexibility to create a work environment that truly supports you!

    3. Celebrate Your Wins: It’s easy to get caught up in the hustle and forget to acknowledge your achievements, big or small. But a good boss always recognizes effort, praises progress, and celebrates achievement. This boosts your morale and reinforces a positive mindset, making the entrepreneurial journey more enjoyable. So, give yourself a high five or a proverbial pat on the back. You deserve it!

    4. Set Clear Expectations: This is crucial. A good boss is kind, and clarity is kindness. Knowing what success looks like on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis helps you stay focused and motivated so you get the results you’re after.

    5. Practice Kind Self-Talk: The way you communicate with yourself matters. Approach your self-talk with curiosity and kindness, just as you would with a team member, to foster a supportive and encouraging environment for your growth. Would you talk to a friend or teammate the way you talk to yourself? If not, it’s time to make a change.

    • Define Your Life Priorities: Set aside some time to identify and prioritize what matters most to you in your life and business. Reflect on how these priorities can shape your entrepreneurial journey.

    • Set Clear Expectations: Establish a ritual to clarify expectations for yourself on a daily basis. What does success look like for you? How will you get there? What do you need to be successful?

    • Honor Your Natural Rhythms: Pay attention to your body’s rhythms, including sleep cycles and energy levels. Track your rhythms to identify when you’re most energized and productive. Schedule your work and meetings accordingly.

    • Practice Positive Self-Talk: Be mindful of the conversations you have with yourself. Replace self-criticism with curiosity and kindness, treating yourself as you would a valued team member. Write affirmations for yourself. Speak them out, proud, loud, and often.

    • Celebrate Your Wins: How will you make it a habit to acknowledge and celebrate your achievements, no matter how small? Daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly. Recognize the effort you put in and take time to appreciate your progress.

  • Lisa: I'm Lisa. 

    Brea: I'm Brea. 

    Lisa: And today we're talking about a thing that Brea was so born ready to do. Tell them, Brea.

    Brea: I am born to be a good boss to myself.

    Lisa: I think you are. You're way better.

    Brea: I wish I was. It was just a big fat lie and it didn't feel good coming out.

    Lisa: The lie detectors in the room can be like, nope, I could tell she was forcing that excitement.

    Brea: Oh, I want to be a good boss to myself. I'm trying to be a good boss to myself. It's hard. It's hard, which is why we're talking about this today. It's hard.

    Lisa: Yes. So in past episodes, we've covered being a bad boss to yourself. So today we'll cover being a good boss to yourself and what some things are we've experimented with in terms of strategy and just the successes. Like you look back over the time in business and you see, oh, well, here are some things that worked. So I'm happy to share a few things that have worked for me. There are a few ways I've been a good boss to myself. There are many ways I've been a bad boss to myself. But today's focus will be all about the good.

    Brea: Yeah. You know, after our last episode on being a bad boss to yourself, I was just like, I can't leave this here. We have this amazing opportunity as entrepreneurs to do it the way that we want to do it. you know, let's dream a little bit about if we had the best boss ever, who would we love to work for? What would that life look like for us? And can we be that for ourselves?

    Lisa: Yes. And you know, being the good boss to yourself, you just built one of the items in right in that statement. And this is an area where I think it's distinct from being an employee is you get to decide who are you going to be to yourself? What are you going to create for a company? What's your life going to be like? What are the roles going to be like? everything about it, you get to make it up. And it is a distinct difference in what life can be like as an entrepreneur. And you just have to grant yourself that permission. And I love how you said that, because you basically, you just gave item number one, how to be well, there you go.

    Brea: You know, if I was born to do something, it's to get things rolling.

    Lisa: Let's go. And to dream, you know, you're always the dreamer. So there you go. Dream up what you want your life to be like.

    Brea: Yes, you know, I love helping people find clarity. And so that's something that I really try to do for myself is I need clear expectations. So to me, those are two separate things, like having a vision, knowing where we're going and having clear expectations. They both obviously can go together and clear expectations are like every day, every hour, every minute, you know, however minute you want to get. making sure that there's clarity so you know what does success look like and have you got there.

    Lisa: Yeah, totally. I think that is one of the key items for me. If I were to say, what am I doing when I'm being a good boss to myself, it would be when I'm putting my life priorities first. And that is an area that's really different from when I was an employee, because there's really a value exchange going on when you're an employee, where they're paying you to add some value to the organization. And they're specifying what that value is much of the time. Whereas when you are being a good boss to yourself, you can say, what are my life priorities? Now, sometimes like early in the business, absolutely. My life priorities were getting this thing off the ground, building revenue. And it was like a real revenue priority. But some years it's creativity. Some years it's some dream I have. Some years it's a lifestyle thing, which is more like current state. And I think that's a really cool thing we can do. It's a way we can be a good boss to ourselves that is just really unlike any other opportunity. It's such a cool thing about owning your own business.

    Brea: It really is. Yes. Prioritizing, having that choice, and not just priorities, but really setting your own values. Like you said, your life values. How does that affect your business values? How do you bring your life values, personal values to your business in a really intentional way. I think that's such a fun experiment, especially as you're just beginning to kind of create, what does this business look like? That's pretty fun. Yeah.

    Lisa: Yeah. So as you were talking about honoring values, I was thinking of another one that's kind of like honoring your own body rhythms, honoring your sleep cycles, honoring some of these things that you can do. Now I feel like I'm just selling being an entrepreneur. This is you being a good boss to yourself. And it's also you being able to do things you might not be able to do when you're in the constraints of a company's working hours or teams and the time zones they might have around the world. But wow, to be able to say, hey, I'm a person who starts meetings at 11 o'clock in the afternoon. That would be something you can't usually walk into an employment situation and say, I begin meeting availability at 11, whereas we can totally do that.

    Brea: We can totally do that. Yes. I have a couple of days on my schedule that I only have a few hours available for meetings. And I have a couple of days where I have no meeting availability. So being the boss and getting to choose and getting to decide, that's so good.

    Lisa: Yeah. Feels amazing.

    Brea: Yeah. I love the word honor. I think we've both said it several times, and I think that there's something to that. Some of us, if you're thinking about being a boss to yourself and being a good boss to yourself, that is probably coming from a place of wanting to honor your own natural rhythms, your strengths. There's something about maybe the place you are, the situation that you're in that feels like it's not honoring how you are at your best. you know, that's not to say that everyone should be or needs to be their own boss, because sometimes honoring what's best for us is, is realizing that we like it when someone else gives us the direction and that it's our job to just execute on that. So consider your own, your own rhythms, your own needs and your own talents, your own, you know, makeup in that way to decide is being a boss to myself, even something that really, honors me, or am I kind of just maybe attracted to some of the flashy things that look so great, you know? But on a day-to-day basis, is that actually best for me?

    Lisa: Well, I want to grab one of the things you said because you mentioned strengths. Well, hello, we're the Lead Through Strengths podcast. And everyone knows we're totally into the strengths lens. Being a good boss to yourself is, to me, very different in the strengths world than it was as an employee. I want to hear your opinion, too. But when I was a manager using the book StrengthsFinder, I would buy the book for every team member and we would talk about, what makes us come alive, what our fuels are, what our drains are. We would do this whole thing through the lens of strengths. And I would consciously bring up strengths through coaching conversations. I would just bake it into how we worked and operated and talked to each other. Well, when you're going it alone as a solopreneur, when you're being a boss to yourself, I have found it different. I actually have to really think, and I live in strengths world, and I have to very consciously say, Hmm, if I apply my strengths to this situation, how would I do it? And just in some of the silliest kind of ways, like I feel drained working on procurement processes at clients. So that's a thing that I have felt myself over the years getting drained by many times. I just wanted to be in the delivery or the marketing, but not the back end work of it. And it really took a while for me to say, Well, what would I do if I were in my strengths? And then it was obvious. Oh, I would use a team member to do this. I just had to consciously say, All right, if I were being a good boss to myself, what would I do here? How would I honor strengths? And I don't know why it suddenly became unnatural when it was me applying it to me. But when I was in leadership capacity, or I was in a corporate role, I really felt like it was more obvious that I needed to consciously apply strengths than when I went out on my own.

    Brea: Oh, I have so many thoughts about that. Tell us. I think the first thing that comes to my mind is, well, of course it's harder to apply it to ourselves because don't we say that to our clients all the time? Like our strengths are so close to us that we can't even see them, right? They feel so natural to us that we miss them, right? And so when we're in an office environment or a team environment and we're using strengths, it's more of the like, let's put the right people in the right seats on the bus because we have that luxury because we have multiple people and When we just have ourselves and we're doing all the things that's a much different scenario. So, of course, it's hard

    Lisa: Good point. Yeah. A lot of times this role has these responsibilities attached to it. And then you may not have certain capabilities as the business owner, but you need to cover those capabilities, whether you're doing those things yourselves or. yourself or hiring somebody else to do them. So it, you're right, it is a really different perspective there. And the way that I was wired when I started, I was like, I want to have at least a little bit of knowledge about everything that's going on. Because how could I be supportive in even decision making for someone if I have no clue what they're experiencing. So if I had outsourced procurement to someone in the first month of my business, I don't know if that would have been smart because I wouldn't have known what's going on. So I needed to go through some of the muck and then be able to outsource it. But I felt like early in the business, I wasn't proactively using my strengths. What would happen is I would be in whatever muck, something would be sucking the life out of me. And I would be like, Wait, this is supposed to be fun. I need to figure out how to work in my strengths. And then that would prompt me to ask myself questions about how to get in my strength zone. And that is a really different kind of, I wasn't doing that in corporate. I was just always using that as a filter. Whereas in my business, I would get down in the dregs of something and then say, Wait a minute, let's reframe this. How can we get into strength zone?

    Brea: Yes, it's such a good point because especially if you're at the beginning of this journey, if you haven't even started your business yet, you're just kind of thinking about it or, you know, in the process of setting it up. Sometimes you don't have the resources, you don't have the money, you don't have the time, you don't have the people. Finding the right people to outsource to is a job in and of itself, which may or may not be part of your strength set. I mean, there's so much that goes into creating opportunities for you to exist in your strengths at work every day. And that may or may not be something that you do well, depending on your talents. So it's such a just a place to to realize that if it feels exceptionally difficult for you and give yourself the grace and then surround yourself with the people and the resources that you need to make sure that you can show up and do what you do best every day in your business.

    Lisa: Yeah, that's right. I think the orientation to being a good boss to yourself in this way when it comes to outsourcing is really different. When I went out on my own and started bringing people into the company, I was thinking like a hiring manager. I need to find a person who can do all of these kind of things in the business. And so I was kind of looking for that one person to be a right hand. And that is what I did at this front end of the business. It was more like one or two contractors doing a huge amount of variety of things. And later what I learned is, oh, really being a good boss to myself would be outsourcing partners to do very small slices of tasks. And I think of the vendors or the contractors more like, hey, I'm just buying this small service from a person. That really helped me because then if a person ever turned over, it wasn't as much work to replace. They were really leaning into their strengths because they're really, really good already. I don't have to teach them. They already show up really good at that specific task. So that helped me a lot, but I really had to get into being an entrepreneur for a while before I started shifting my mindset like that. And it was really exciting then to use my strengths, but also someone else's strengths in these small slices. Whereas when you're employing people you have more of that corporate mentality. You don't think of it like that. You think of more like, I'm hiring one person who can figure out all these job duties.

    Brea: Yes. Yes. It's so good. So this idea of playing to your strengths and leveraging your strengths is beyond just your own CliftonStrengths profile. How do you run your business from a place of strength? How do you bring that strengths mindset to your business? How can you lead from strength in your business in general? Yeah. I love it. So my communication wants to talk about the conversations that we have with ourself. One thing that I think of when I think of good bosses and working for a good boss is there's trust there, there's psychological safety there. Do you have that with yourself? Or are you constantly critical, constantly punishing, constantly focused on that self-criticism? Or are you approaching yourself and your business with curiosity, with the kinds of words that you would say to a team member if you were their manager? Are you using those same words and approaches with yourself?

    Lisa: I have to know, since you lead through communication, are these conversations with yourself out loud? No. Yeah, I agree. It's a really important one. Are you at least being a good enough boss to yourself that you are having a conversation with yourself that is as kind as you would have with a stranger? I mean, that is a low bar.

    Brea: A low bar.

    Lisa: And how many people do we hear about or just really beating themselves up on all kinds of topics? I'm not good at marketing. I'm not good at selling. I'm not good at positioning. I don't know what my niche is. I cannot figure it out. I'm terrible at decisions. I don't know how to earn any revenue. I can't decide on my topics. I mean, we hear all kinds of things. You're not being a good boss to yourself.

    Brea: Yeah. We know that when our strengths are stressed, the weakness comes out. And boy, is there a lot of stress in owning your own business and being a boss to yourself. So pay attention to that. Just look for, you know, if you feel like if you hear yourself saying those things, I'm not good enough. I don't know what to do. I can't. pay attention to where those insecurities are coming from or where those disappointments or discouragements or criticism is coming from, it's likely a clue to your talent. I really believe that it's the things that we really care about, the places where we see that potential in us that really get us down. So just reframe it, you know, untie the lie and realize that the truth is you can and you are good enough and get curious with yourself just like you would with one of your clients, someone that you're coaching and ask yourself what needs to be true. I love that rhyme. Oh, it's trademarked, so don't try.

    Lisa: Yours or someone else's?

    Brea: It's mine, yeah.

    Lisa: Oh, look at you.

    Brea: Part of my proprietary framework, you know, it's fine, it's fine.

    Lisa: Amazing. Okay, so you were talking about your communication and some of the conversations with yourself. I would bring up some of the non-conversations with myself. Literally the downside of not talking to myself. What I mean by that is, okay, if I work myself into the ground and then I'm at a workplace with other people, I'm back at corporate in my past roles, you're going to have people in your life who look at you and go, hey, are you okay? You look really tired or you almost look sick today. Are you all right? You know, you have people who will check in, right? I would just not do that with myself. I would just be like, yeah, well, they're getting some bags under the eyes. Oh, keep pushing, you know, just completely keep ignoring because there are certain driving talents that I have, strategic, maximizer, focus, and those non conversations. I think those led to a real lesson about being a good boss to yourself because they were ways. I was a bad boss when I ignored them and really tuning into those signs and just stopping. So it's interesting to hear you with your communication talent. You're probably having a lot more proactive, ongoing conversations in your mind. And then for me, it was like the opposite. It was like the lack of that I had to recognize to be a good boss to myself.

    Brea: It's a difference in perspective. It's a difference in if I am not surrounded with the people and the environment that I'm used to and all of a sudden now I just have me, how do you intentionally do those body check-ins? Or now you have to bring your spouse into the conversation or a best friend into the conversation. You still need a best friend at work even if you're not in the office. Yeah. So it's just, it's all the things that we know about what makes a good leader, what makes a good boss and redirecting it and reapplying it in a way that makes sense for you. Like you're the boss and the employee and the contractor.

    Lisa: and the, you know, everything, you know, you are all of it and you can feel that as weighty, but you can also feel the amazing freedom of it. It's such a perfect full circle. Back to the beginning of this conversation where we were talking about honoring, honoring sleep, honoring body rhythms, honoring your soul, honoring your values to be a good boss to yourself. it is so important to remain tuned in. Because if you're not, you'll get those messages, but you won't get them in the nice, easy way. I had a mentor tell me, Lisa, you can get your messages with a feather or a hammer. And when you don't listen to the feathers, you're going to get the hammer over the head. And that is what my body was like. You're not listening, lady.

    Brea: Yeah. So here comes the hammer. You got to listen to this. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's why it's so important to be proactive. That's the thread that I'm really picking up from this conversation is don't wait until it's too late, you know, until you're drowning to reach out for help or until your body is shutting down, you know, don't wait, invest in your own development and growth. Find a coach. Hire a coach. Find other support to surround you, other people who are paying attention to you and who want your good in a personal way and a professional way. We need to be investing in ourselves because you're running the business. it's important to be proactive and investing in that way. Yeah.

    Lisa: That's a beautiful takeaway. I love that lesson for the whole episode that being a good boss to yourself is a practice. Being a good boss to yourself is a discipline.

    Brea: It's a listening. Yeah.

    Lisa: Yeah. Well, I just said what you said, so.

    Brea: Yeah, yeah. The last thing that I think is a good send-off, celebrate your wins. It should go without saying, especially on a strengths podcast, but I'm going to say it because we forget to do it, and you have to. Celebrate your wins, big, small, doesn't matter, but this is what a good boss does. They see the effort that's put in. They acknowledge it. They see the progress. They celebrate it. Not just the outcomes and not just the big checks. It's everything that you do. Being a boss is hard. It's, there's a lot in this world, you know, especially if you're just starting. I mean, what do they say? The majority of people quit, you know, after one year or after two years. So it's challenging, right? So every little win, you got to celebrate it. And yeah, what a great strengths approach to do that. And if you're setting those milestones, right, being a good boss to yourself is setting those milestones, having that vision, and then celebrating once you hit the milestones.

    Lisa: Yes, I second that. Everything you just said. And it can be structured, it can be milestones and goal achievement, but it can also just be like the moment of going, oh, that was really satisfying, that thing I just finished. And then you turn around and give yourself a high five.

    Brea: Show me. Yes. I love it. Yeah. I love it. Just like that pop-up card that you got so many years ago with those animals high-fiving.

    Lisa: Oh, I know. That's right. For people who have no idea what Brea's talking about, I love pop-up cards. It's ridiculous, but you open up a card and then, boom, it becomes 3D. I just think that is

    Brea: party all of a sudden. Yeah.

    Lisa: Yes. And then to make the party even greater, there was this thank you card series I gave them to clients. They probably thought I was such a dork, but I didn't. I just thought they were so much fun. They were different animals in each card. And when they popped up and became 3D, they gave each other high fives.

    Brea: That is so freaking cool. I know. Thank you for including everyone in the story. I was just going to make them go listen to every single episode to figure out what the heck we were talking about, you know, just to boost the, boost the engagement, you know, the algorithm.

    Lisa: You only have 11 years, 11 years worth to go listen to.

    Brea: Oh my gosh. Yes. I love that. I love that.

    Lisa: All right, well, everyone listening, let us know what you do to be a good boss to yourself. Come out, tell us on social, we'll post about this episode on LinkedIn, so find it there, or Lisa at Lead Through Strengths, and tell us where you want them to hit you at brearoper.com.

    Brea: Yeah, we've got the, the podcast listener community is up and rolling. We're meeting every other week in between episode drops. So if you want to sign up for that list, so you don't miss your opportunity to gather and share with the rest of your listener buddies. Um, that's on my website, brayroper.com slash lead through strengths.

    Lisa: Boom. All right. Well, Bree, go off and be a good boss to yourself today.

    Brea: Hey, let's all go be good boss to ourselves. I love it. Thanks, Lisa. I'll see you guys later.

    Lisa: See you next time.

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 176 - Are You A Bad Boss To Yourself?

🎧 In today's episode, we dive into the juicy topic of being a "bad boss" to ourselves as entrepreneurs. Isn’t it funny how some of the very behaviors that made us decide to stop working for a bad boss, are often some of the same behaviors we do to ourselves. Things like overworking, neglecting self-care, not setting boundaries, working unreasonable hours, and more. Together, we explore how these bad boss behaviors can lead to burnout and resentment.

So, if you’re ready to stop being a bad boss to yourself and start thriving in your entrepreneurial journey, this episode is packed with insights and encouragement just for you! 🌟

💬 p.s. - What did we miss? What would you add? Share your experiences in the comments below!

    1. The Importance of Boundaries
      One of the biggest traps we fall into as entrepreneurs is the lack of boundaries. Whether it's working unreasonable hours or failing to take time off, we often push ourselves to the limit. In the episode, we discuss how setting clear boundaries (like blocking off time for personal commitments or vacations) can actually enhance our productivity and well-being. Remember, it's not just about working hard, it's about working smart and honoring your own needs.

    2. Understanding Your Value
      Many of us struggle with pricing our services appropriately, often undercharging out of fear that clients won't pay for what we offer. We emphasize the importance of recognizing your worth and understanding the market value of your skills. By doing your research and setting fair prices, you not only protect your profits but also prevent burnout and resentment. Don’t be afraid to charge what you’re worth!

    3. The Power of Community
      Navigating the entrepreneurial landscape can be daunting, but you don’t have to do it alone. We highlight the significance of surrounding yourself with a supportive community. Whether it’s through mentorship, networking, or joining groups like Tools for Coaches, having a network can provide you with insights, accountability, and encouragement. Sharing experiences and learning from others can help you avoid common pitfalls and thrive in your business.

    1. Set Boundaries for Work Hours: Establish clear boundaries around your work hours to prevent burnout. Consider blocking off specific times for work, personal activities, and rest to maintain a healthy work-life balance.

    2. Implement a PTO Policy: Schedule regular time off by blocking out vacation weeks in advance. Aim for at least one week per quarter to ensure you take breaks and recharge, even if you don’t have immediate plans.

    3. Time Block for Tasks: Create a structured schedule by time blocking for different types of work (e.g., emails, client calls, instructional design). This will help you manage your time effectively and ensure you allocate enough time for all necessary tasks.

    4. Evaluate Pricing Strategies: Reflect on your pricing model to ensure it reflects the value of your services. Research market rates and consider charging more for customized offerings to avoid burnout and resentment.

    5. Seek Community and Mentorship: Surround yourself with a supportive community or mentors who can provide guidance and share their experiences. Engage in discussions about challenges and solutions to avoid common pitfalls in entrepreneurship.

  • Lisa:Hi, I'm Lisa.

    Brea: I’m Brea

    Lisa: And today, oh, this song is on my mind. Do you remember that song? Where it says buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh. Yeah.

    Brea: Yes, of course I do. And you did that so well. Do it again.

    Lisa: Well, that was me for a lot of years of my coaching, training, speaking business being a bad to the bone, a bad boss to yourself. I am so guilty or was so guilty.

    Brea: A bad boss to yourself. Yes. Okay. This is juicy. You know, I love a juicy topic. This is a juicy one.

    Lisa: Yeah. Well, let's talk about what brings us into wanting to be entrepreneurs and then how, well, for me, I know I have the stories to tell and the lessons to tell about the things that were turning it into bad boss. So if I start off and say, I didn't have bad bosses in corporate. I had great bosses, great leaders. I had a really good experience. So I didn't have the reference point of saying, I don't want to be this terrible person. And so that's why I'm leaving. I wasn't running from that. I was running toward this dream. Oh, now I've got a Tom Petty song in my head. Running down a dream. OK, no, let's stop. I've got too many songs.

    Brea: Chili's, baby, baby, baby back ribs. That's what I have in my head. Now you've got to turn it into bad, bad, bad boss.

    Lisa: That's so fun. Anyway, yeah, I was totally running down that dream. It was like freedom. I would see other people doing it and I would think, this is so cool. I could take the work that I'm paying vendors to do. I just saw this vision, like if I could be that vendor, I could have this amazing life doing exactly the work that I love. It will be so inspirational and soul-filling because the work is really cool. I'll have total freedom and flexibility with my time. I can work fewer hours. I think it's going to just be so amazing. So I really set up this dream life vision and then quickly out of fear, now that I have a rear view mirror, I worked myself into not that dream because I was so unreasonable as a boss to myself. So I was a total bad boss to myself. What about you? What attracted you to do your own thing?

    Brea: Yeah. A huge part of my story was, I'm not going to say I had bad bosses, but I am going to say There are a lot of people who are elevated into leadership positions because they were really great at their job. at the lower level, you know, for example, maybe they were just a killer salesman. And now all of a sudden, they're a manager of people. And that's not even the same job. And I think we've actually talked about that on the podcast before, and how just bogus that is that we're expecting, you know, great leaders to emerge from people who were showing excellence in something else. And so I have worked for and with people who were not given any training or any support to be a leader and didn't know how to handle me. And I'm a lot. And I think maybe those who are listening with a lot of strong, influencing themes like me, I'm not the cookie cutter, let's do it like it's always been done. Just close your mouth and do the work. I can't work like that. I bring new ideas and question everything. And leaders didn't know what to do with that. And so I really did get into this business, especially strengths to help be a solution, to help leaders learn how to lead the people they have. instead of just trying to put everybody into the same little mold. So a different starting place, but yeah, great conversation. I'm excited to dive in. Okay, nice.

    Lisa: And you made me think that our thread is so tied together in that it's like when people get promoted into their incompetence. When I left and went out on my own and didn't know how to be an entrepreneur, I had business acumen. I was promoted into incompetence as far as being able to manage myself and my time and create, run, grow a business. I didn't really get all of it so I had some areas of high incompetence and that's why I was a bad boss to myself.

    Brea: Yeah, and maybe this is where we start is, you know, there are very, very few people out there who can do all the things with excellence. We've talked about that a little bit in our BP10 episode, you know, how there are certain talents and certain skills that every business owner needs, and no one person has them all.

    Lisa: Yeah, well, let me give a real-life tale of being a bad boss to myself under one category, which would be just unreasonable work hours. And one version of that is I had this business strategy. I worked to work with Fortune 500 talent development teams, leadership development teams. That was all great. Got that. So then, I have clients who have people all over the world, and they want to do sessions and workshops, usually virtual, because that was my specialty, and they would want to break up a session, and we would do them basically on the same day, and here's how it would work. I would have a 9 a.m. session, and that would be with Americas and EMEA, so if you're not from corporate or a place where they do these abbreviations, EMEA is Europe, Middle East, Africa, And then I would do a 9 p.m. session with India, APJ, APJ is Asia Pacific, Japan. So I would be up, prepared, showered, ready to go, sound check, so pretty early days, starting with the 9 a.m. Then I would deliver at 9 p.m., depending on time changes, sometimes it was 10 or 11, or depending on the client. could be a 10 or 11 p.m. start. So I would be finishing up as late as 1 a.m. after having gotten up at 5 a.m. and I would do these repeatedly. It wouldn't just be like an occasional thing. I would do them over and over and that would be these long, long days. And I just thought, I mean, it's the same workshop. We're trying to deliver it on the same day-ish. And I just did it unthinking about the consequence to my body and my sleep and the circadian rhythm and all these things that now later, I realized I really wrecked it, but I didn't know then. I just thought, yeah, I stay up late once in a while. Once a week I do these, big deal. And it was a big deal, but didn't realize I was being such a bad boss to myself with those decisions.

    Brea: Yes, totally. It does add up over time, right? It's so funny because for me, it's exactly the opposite. I love a 9 a.m. and a 9 p.m. I often am working late at night. 9 p.m. to midnight is kind of a sweet spot for editing podcasts or emails or some creative things. So I don't mind the unreasonable work hours. But for me, where I fall into the trap is just working all the time, not having boundaries. So one of the things that attracted me to entrepreneurship is this concept of time freedom, you know, being able to just go to a kid's soccer game or a recital or something during the day that I wouldn't be able to if I was in an office 9 to 5 and I had to be there, right? So if I'm working at 9 a.m. and 9 p.m. I have to make sure that I'm taking advantage of the time freedom that I've given myself.

    Lisa: It's like the good boss to yourself is taking that time and making them non-work hours. The bad boss to yourself would be go, go, go and just fill the middle with the emails and the mundane and fill it in and then it becomes a, well, more than 12 hour workday. Maybe it became a 16 hour workday, but the difference could be a nap in the middle of the day, the soccer game and all of those things. And you're still spending those same hours awake, but it's what you're doing with them consciously.

    Brea: How do you know me so well? You know that I love to nap. I mean, come on, naps are a key part of a long day, you know, is taking a little break, a little siesta. Yes. And to be honest, I don't feel guilty about any of that at all. Unreasonable work hours doesn't resonate with me, but working more hours than ever totally resonates. Whatever your time hangup is, make sure that you're being a good boss to yourself by honoring your own needs, your own talents, and balancing the work with life.

    Lisa: Right. Yeah, all of mine are some version of time. Like the next one that I thought of was PTO policy. So if you're an employee somewhere, you have PTO. And when you have PTO, you actually think about booking out vacation time. And I just allowed myself to forget about the concept of PTO. And in the early five years of my business, in the front end, I was so booked out. I would be booked out for nine months. So if anybody wanted to get on my calendar for anything, it would literally be like, well, I have a speech that week, or I have a training that week, I want to be in this city that week, I want to be in another city that week. And if we were going to take a vacation, we'd have to think of it nine months in advance. So that is another area of bad boss to yourself, where on one hand, you think you're being good because I was like, Yeah, I'm booking myself out and I was excited because I could generate enough business to be booked out that far But then the downside was what about my family? What about friends? What about my own breaks? I just didn't have them and one day I was talking to a friend about it Tammy if you're listening shout out she was like Lisa It's so easy. All you have to do is block of one week per quarter. And that's it. Just one week per quarter. Then you give yourself four weeks of time. Worst case, if you don't want the time off or you don't want the vacation, don't take it. But otherwise, take it. And if a client wants to book a speech and it's a really cool opportunity, then just move the week to another week. But if you don't block the time out, you'll never get the time. And it was really cool. I started doing it and it made everything work. Now, I am way on the other side of it now. I take lots of time off. I work three-day work weeks. I have a whole different thing because I've figured out how to be a super cool boss to myself nowadays. But it was terrible. So that was one that I thought, gosh, that would be a really good lesson for someone new who is building momentum to just do that in advance. Even if you don't have any bookings yet and you're new to building a business, just start doing it as a habit. Because what's the worst case of that? Just work during that time if you want to.

    Brea: Yeah, I love that. And the other side of that is if it's on the calendar and you've got a trip to Europe planned and it's coming up and you aren't working like that's a little fire under your behind to find some work, get some revenue coming in. It's also interesting, this concept of boundaries, putting a PTO on the calendar, that's a boundary. You're saying, I'm prioritizing this. There's a literal boundary that you're drawing on the calendar to block off the time for that. So if you're listening, think about other boundaries that you need for yourself.

    Lisa: I'm curious, how did you know some of the boundaries early on? I don't know how I would know until I made the mistakes. I would do three or four virtual sessions in a day because I was like, oh, this is so efficient. I love being efficient and I only have to do my hair and makeup one time. And then I can take the next day to do more admin stuff. So I would get like adrenaline dump after adrenaline dump. It was not good for my body to do it that way. But I didn't realize until I did it enough to go, Oh, I need some boundaries on how many a day I'll do. And then another one, is I would do about 100 events a year. And if you think about travel events, there's a fly day, there's the event day, and then there's a fly day. So if you do 100 events times three, because it's three days to do an event, that is 300 days. Then you want to add on some vacation days, and then add your 52 weekends in there. Basically, that's every day. So then, when do you do prospect calls? When do you do instructional design? When do you answer emails? Do you just cram it in even more? I did. I was a terrible boss to myself in that way. So I think, like, I'm curious about you and your boundaries. How did you know what your boundaries needed to be before you were ever fully booked?

    Brea: I didn't know. I didn't know anything. I didn't even know anything. I mean, I think I've said this on this podcast before. I didn't even know that I wanted to own my own business. I literally just fell into it because I didn't have a job and I just started like, doing what I could to make money. And now here I am nine years later. So that's a bad boss, OK, is not even knowing that you're running a business. Yeah. So I learned as I went and I often learned the hard way, which I think is why I love these episodes on helping other coaches to not make the same mistakes. For me, the boundaries that I've learned I needed were around customization. So a trap that I would fall into and still do, if I'm totally honest, I need to continue to do better, is to not over customize everything. Because I love that. I love it so much. So I learned to set the boundary of charging more for those custom, bespoke, premium experiences, which is helpful. But also, I just have such a big heart for people, and my little individualization will over-customize literally everything if I'm not careful. So setting those boundaries is really important. I think you mentioned earlier working or operating out of fear. That's a general caution when we're looking at how are we a bad boss to ourselves. Oftentimes, being a bad boss comes from being afraid. So you're afraid that the customers won't come, you know, the work won't come. And so you take anything given to you, even if it's something you've never delivered before, you don't know anything about it. And You're like, sure, I can do that. And then you spend way too much time creating something that you only use once and not charging enough for it. So setting boundaries around where I want to spend my time. Not just the time on the calendar saying this is admin time, this is creative time, and this is delivery time, but boundaries around what do I want to offer? And that took time for me to figure out. I don't know that I would know that ahead of time, unless maybe someone else who was in L&D or are something, something adjacent and then became their own boss. Maybe they would have a better idea, but I had no idea.

    Lisa: Yeah, I came from that background and I had no idea because I knew how to block out time for instructional design, for a needs assessment. I knew those parts of the work, but then how many minutes I would need to be in QuickBooks, or calling the accountant, or managing a procurement process, or talking to the insurance company. I mean, all of those kind of things that I had an experience before. I did not block time out. And that is how I figured it out eventually. I'm still figuring it out, let's be honest. But I did get a lot closer by time blocking. And I started doing things like, what amount of time a day do I spend on email? OK, about an hour. And sometimes emails create action items. So I've got to leave some space for that. So I started putting, OK, they create about this many action items. So I'm going to put hold customer work. And I'm going to block. a couple hour chunk twice a week, and then I'm going to put one hour a day for email, and then I'm going to put 30 minutes for lunch so I can actually eat. I just tried to look at what the average week had for me that I hadn't really thought of or didn't want to plan for, because planning for design time, that was easy. I would just be like, block one day, and I can get this deck developed. I really just had a good feel for that, whereas these other elements, I didn't have a feel for it. And I didn't want to be in those moments like I wanted to be in a needs assessment or instructional design or making a deck. So I started time blocking. And then I had this massive realization that was whoa, there aren't very many minutes left. If you actually put, you know, if you want to work a regular kind of, say you want to work a nine to five kind of time block, and then you fill all those things in, where, where do you even have time? And then you add in delivery and flying. if you're on the road and that gets really slim and that is where I realized I just had to say no. I was so good at saying yes to things and that's not as fun for me to say no. It still isn't as fun to say no but that is the the magic sauce. And I still struggle with it every day because the more you book and the more you get seen in an industry, the more people ask for things from you. And some of those are really great things. You want to be in a peer relationship. You want to have a media appearance. You want to talk with clients about ideas. You want to do a bunch of things, but you realize you have to say no to a lot or you'll never have time for you and the whole oxygen mask theory comes into play.

    Brea: Yep, totally. So the thread, common theme that I'm hearing is this idea of structure. We need structure. Too much structure, maybe, is what I'm hearing from your early days. Or the wrong kind of structure, not knowing how much time to block for certain things. Too much structure might equal no freedom. which is bad boss, right? That's not why we went into business for ourselves. But also the other extreme is no structure. No structure is no freedom as well, because there's wasted time and decision fatigue. So finding that median that works for you. Maybe it's a nine to five workday. Maybe it's a nap in the afternoon and a 9 a.m. and a 9 p.m. But whatever works for you, making sure that there is some kind of structure, some kind of boundary, some kind of sandbox to play in to allow the freedom that you're looking for. It's such a trap to believe that structure constricts or restricts our freedoms. There's so much science that proves when we have at least some boundaries, when we have a sandbox of plan, we can get so much more creative than if we have all the things to do, then we end up doing nothing or we end up just spinning our wheels. going insane.

    Lisa: Yeah, constraint can give you the freedom. And it's scary to honor the constraint. But you definitely have the theories that everyone has heard of, like the work expands to the time allowed. So you have simple things like if I give myself three hours to make this deck, will it be any better than the one hour? Well, maybe marginally, but if I said, I'm going to buckle down, I only have one hour to do this, boom, I'm still going to have a good product. And then I get two hours back in my day that I would have spent over maximizing. And then on a bigger picture, if you back into the dreams, when I decided a few years ago to have three-day work weeks, it sounded so impossible. But then I just blocked off Monday and Friday and said, well, what does it have to look like to make it possible? and being able to say things to a client that I was so afraid of. The words, oh, I'm already booked there. Let's look at next week. Those are so easy to say. I don't have to say, oh, I take off Fridays to get a massage. I don't have to say those words. I just have to say, I'm booked already on Friday. Let's look into next week. And it's fine. Everything's fine.

    Brea: Yep. And people like to work with winners. So if you are available every minute of every day, what they might see is, wow, like she's not doing anything. She's desperate for work. And they're busy too. They are busy too. This actually just happened yesterday. I got an inquiry from someone that I didn't know. They found me online and went to my website and scheduled a call. So yay, process works, right? Yay, inbound. Yay, inbound. But it wasn't until my next available on my Calendly, which was a few days away. And when her inquiry came in, I happened to be available. And I just texted her and I said, Hey, super excited to meet with you, just wondering if you happen to be free now. And she called me and we talked and it's looking really good. So I think structure is good and it's okay to be flexible in the moment. You know, I gave her that option that said, Hey, if you want to talk now, we can. And she took it and now we're moving forward.

    Lisa: And what a cool way, like I just think of that and go, ooh, that could be an example of being a good boss to yourself. And that what if you really had something else in mind for Thursday and you could find cracks in the week. You always talk about the cracks in your day. And then this could be a crack in the week where you're like, ooh, if I filled this one in, I'm going to free myself up to do this other thing on Thursday.

    Brea: Totally. And it was it was better for me because my energy was at a high. I had just delivered something really great. I had just had a great coaching call in the morning. So I was like, I was feeling it. I was feeling strengths. I was feeling myself. And that came through in the sales call several times. She said, oh, my gosh, I can just tell how much you love your work. And isn't that what we want? Is that true authenticity? So knowing my own talents, knowing that my energy comes from those wins, I leaned in and I offered to meet with her then because I knew I would be better on the call. She didn't have to say yes, I wasn't forcing her to change the schedule, but she did and that worked out for both of us, you know? So knowing yourself is just really, really important. Yeah. Another thing is also with boundaries and with fear, the trap of charging too little because we're afraid that people won't pay for what we have to offer. Not only does it hurt our profits, but it also leads to so much burnout and maybe even resentment. And that's something that I found really early on. I didn't know what the market would handle as far as pricing went, and I didn't really know what I wanted to value my time for. And so that was something that I had to learn the hard way. But I think if I had put some thought into it, put some research into it, I could have figured that out without years of learning the hard way and struggling with the burnout and the resentment that that brought.

    Lisa: Yeah. Oh, that's a really good one because you basically you're being a bad boss to yourself by not thinking of it as a business. If you're thinking of it as you as a freelancer doing hourly rate, you're going to make really different decisions versus how you would price it if you were like, oh, they want to do four pre-event calls, not just one. Oh, they're going to ask me to take my deck and put it into their brand template. oh, they're going to send me through a procurement process that requires 40 hours on the phone with their call center, and they only happen to be available in India time zone, and things that you wouldn't expect because you don't know at the beginning, or maybe you need to hire a team to deliver because the time zones are all over the place, and you have no margin for that if you're building it like an hourly freelancer, not like a business owner. And it's a way that people are often bad bosses to themselves just out of naivete. But like you said, if you have people around you, if you have mentors around you, if you ask the questions, you can really be a good boss to yourself by thinking ahead and surrounding yourself with a community of people who have been there and done that so that you don't walk the same mistakes.

    Brea: Yes. Yes, I know you probably want to land the plane. So I'll give my closing thought first. My closing thought is scaling the wrong thing, growing something that you don't enjoy, continuing to offer something that has worked, that has brought in money, but not because you like it or not because you want to continue offering it. Gosh, Doesn't that happen when we're working for someone else? We're given tasks all the time and expectations, and we just kind of have to grumble our way through it. And we do that to ourselves in our own business as well. And you don't have to. You don't have to do that. I talk to so many coaches who ask me, what should I offer? What should my offering be? What should my business model be? What should I? And you are the only one that can answer those questions for yourself. You have to make sure that you're setting things up in a way that you want to go to work every day. You want to sell in casual conversations in the elevator and also informal networking opportunities and in a formal sales call. You have to be excited about what you're doing. Don't keep doing things just because they're bringing in profit. If it's not really lighting you up, then figure out something else. Scale your business another way. You don't have to scale it based on what other people are telling you to do or what's working for other people.

    Lisa: Yes, and I'll jump on the theme of scaling and say where I know I went wrong and I was a total bad boss to myself, was not thinking about the scale of labor. And I ate into that with my personal hours as the only solution I really knew how to do at the beginning. And if I had mentors and a community and people who had been there before I went there, I think instead of me just celebrating, Oh, look how much I'm growing. Oh, look how many clients I'm getting, I would have realized, Oh, my gosh, I'm about to step in a big pile of life poo because of how much I'm wearing myself out. So it's actually why, one of the reasons I created Tools for Coaches. So if you're listening, and you've been hearing me talk about the tools and templates inside of Tools for Coaches, there's also a community out there and there's mentorship. And part of the beauty of that group is being able to ask, like, what do you all do to prevent this? Or what do you all do to get in front of that? And that's part of that membership that I run. So leadthroughstrengths.com slash Tools for Coaches, if you want to check that out. It's a great place to catch these problems, like being a bad boss to yourself before you commit them.

    Brea: Love it. Yes. And same for me. I mean, having people around me, having community is just essential for my happiness and for my success. So I think that's why I've been really itching to get this podcast community together. I want to talk to you guys about these episodes. If anything is resonating with you, come talk with other podcast listeners. Let's talk about what's working for you, what questions you have, what's not working for you, share that community, and then put it to work. Let's build your business. You know, we had our first meeting this week and it was so awesome. So it's BreaRoper.com/leadthroughstrengths. Can't wait to see you.

    Lisa: Boom. No more bad to the bone.

    Brea: Now we can get our baby back, baby back, baby back ribs. 

    Lisa: See y'all next time.

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 175 - 20 Ways to Find New Clients

In today's episode, we dive deep into a topic that many coaches struggle with: finding clients. If prospecting makes you want to run and hide…don’t worry. We’ve got you!

Listen in as we share some strategies that have worked for us, so you can make them work for you. Plus, we sprinkle in some creative ideas on how to make yourself visible and approachable in everyday situations. You know, just because we’re fun like that.

If you’re ready to transform your prospecting game, and maybe even have a little fun along the way, this episode is just for you!

🌟

    • Throw Away the Rule Book 📚

      Contrary to what all the marketing gurus out there will tell you, there is no one-size-fits-all approach! Instead, focus on leveraging your unique strengths. Whether it's through storytelling, networking, or email marketing, find what resonates with you and use it to connect with potential clients. Remember, authenticity is key!

    • Know how to answer the question, “What do you do?”

      When someone asks, they’re standing at the front door of your business. If you don’t have a compelling answer, they will turn around and leave. Tailor your response to spark their interest, and they’ll likely ask to come inside. 

    • Referrals are the lifeblood of your business.

      Move beyond the awkward, “It was nice working with you. If you ever know anyone else who might be interested, please send them my way.” Instead, request referrals with confidence, intention, and gratitude. Build intentional relationships to create a network of mutual referrals that benefits everyone involved.

    • Visibility is Vital 👀

      If going out to find clients feels intimidating, get them to come to you instead! Find creative ways to make yourself visible and approachable in everyday situations, like bringing a relevant book to a coffee shop or wearing a name tag while working at a co-working space. These small actions can invite conversations and opportunities.

    • Follow Up with Existing Clients

      Don’t overlook your current and past clients. Regularly check in with them and ask for referrals or feedback, as they are often the best source for new business opportunities.

    • Identify and utilize your unique strengths in your prospecting efforts.
      Focus on what feels authentic to you rather than blindly following conventional methods. Authenticity wins every time!

    • Craft Your One-Liner.
      Develop a compelling answer to the question, "What do you do?" that resonates with your target audience. Ask Brea to share her simple 3-sentence framework that works every time.

    • Leverage Referral Partners 🤝
      Make a list of other professionals who serve your target audience in different ways. Invite them to be an intentional referral partner for you (and you for them!). By collaborating with these partners, you can create a network that mutually benefits everyone involved.

    • Utilize Email Marketing
      Start or enhance your email marketing strategy to gather and nurture leads. Create valuable content that keeps your audience engaged and positions you as a go-to resource in your field.

    • Engage Current Clients for Referrals and Continuing Business
      Regularly ask your existing clients for referrals by directly inquiring, "Who do you know that might benefit from my services?" Use feedback forms to gauge interest in additional services or coaching opportunities.

  • Lisa: I'm Lisa. 

    Brea: I'm Brea. 

    Lisa:
    And today we are talking about, y'all, Brea is in love. Did you ever think we would have a show about Brea being in love? What are you in love with, Brea?

    Brea: I love prospecting.

    Lisa: They didn't see it coming.

    Brea: I know. I was trying to think of something funny that was unexpected, but I wasn't expecting to do that. And then I just was like, I just love it. I love it so much. Helping people find clients, finding my own clients, reaching out and helping people, giving them a solution. Finding people, I just, I love it. I love it so much.

    Lisa: You hear her excitement. She's in love with prospecting. How fun is that? So yeah, today we're going to talk about 10 ways to find clients as a coach. Hey, awesome. Let's go. Well, you're enamored. You're in love. So we're going to start with you. Give us a way to find clients as a coach.

    Brea: Well, I think the first thing to do is to throw away the rule book. whatever the people have told you that you should be doing, or you have to do this if you're gonna find clients as a coach. No, there is no right way. We know from our strengths work that the only right way is to use your strengths. So do that. If you want to use social media and funnels and aggressive marketing campaigns and all the things that they say, whoever they are, say that you should do that, that's fine. And also use your strengths. So for me, communication, number one, telling the story, right? Sharing testimonials, telling the transformation, not in a salesy way, but just in a like, I love my job kind of way. You know, when you meet someone on the street, when you're sitting in the salon chair, when someone says, Hey, what do you do? Don't give them the wah, wah, wah. This is what I do. Tell them the story, right, if you lead with communication. So, woo, you know, look for opportunities to approach new people or sign up for networking events or figure out ways to use your strengths. to interact and engage with people.

    Lisa: Yes. One of mine was pretty similar, so I'll just jump on to kind of piggyback that. And the way that I thought of it was, have an answer that you love to the question, what do you do? Because that question comes up in life so often. So I always think about the person I'm talking to. So if I'm in a room full of software engineers and my answer is, I help burned out software engineers love their work again, like I'm being really specific to that person where they're like, oh, I'm burned out. So whether in the story, I just love your perspective because you're pulling people in like, oh my gosh, I know someone who needs you.

    Brea: So that's right. That's right. Yeah, and you're reminding me we have another episode, I don't remember what it's called off the top of my head, but where we talk about that one-liner. And so if that's something that you listeners want to do, go back and listen to that to maybe spark some creativity about how to create that one-liner.

    Lisa: Yes, absolutely. We'll find it and put it in the show notes.

    Brea: Okay.

    Lisa: Yeah. So Brea, if we do, if we start with how we've actually gotten the bulk of our business, let's start the next couple with things that we actually used to get business. I mean, probably all of them are things that we've used, but I want to say like, what has had the biggest impact in getting us business?

    Brea: Yeah, so I love this concept of referral partners. I mean, referrals are just, I mean, chef's kiss, you know, for building a business. But I don't know that a lot of people know what a referral partner is or have put some thought into having intentional referral partners. So that could look like a referral program where clients can refer you and maybe they get some kind of reward or maybe they do it out of the kindness of their heart. But when I think of a referral partner, I think of who else serves your customer, your client base, in a different way. Are you intentionally partnering with those people to refer each other? So think, what else does your client need? Find those service providers and link arms. Realtors are great at this. Their job is to sell the house, so their referral partners are the plumber, the electrician, the lawn maintenance, anything that a homeowner might need services for, then all of a sudden you've got this network of people that are referring their clients to each other. And we can do that too as coaches.

    Lisa: Yes, so smart. I can see, like, if you do CliftonStrengths for teams in manufacturing and you have a referral partner who does HR for teams in manufacturing, you could be a great referral partner for each other. Absolutely. Yes. I have something similar I would add. It's going to be a separate thing. It's a separate technique, but it is along the lines of referrals. I would call it an expansion referral. And that would be, I've gotten a lot of business over the years where I get in a customer, and then I'm in with Executive A, and then Executive B tells Executive C, and they start spreading you around the organization, sharing what you do. And that can be something that just happens because the impact was big and they took it upon themselves to do it. But you could also do this really programmatically. If they don't have the budget to do the full thing they want to accomplish, I'll say, what other leaders could we involve so that you could team up together and get a year's worth of this instead of one? session, one one-off session. So things like that, where you get in and you grow the opportunity from the inside because you've already proven yourself and you have fans who are willing to share, plus you're already through the procurement system and all of those things that happen. So I would say, I would call that an expansion referral, a little different from an outside referral partner, but both amazing kinds of referrals, especially if you make it a system.

    Brea: Yeah, I love that. You know, my missionary background is coming to mind where I had to fundraise all of my income for four years. And in that training, we learned a question that has been so helpful for me as a business owner. And that question is, who do you know that needs whatever it is that you provide, that needs your coaching services. But when you ask a current customer who already loves you, who's already paying you, who is already singing your praises, the question of who do you know is so much different than saying, oh, if you know anybody who could blah, blah, blah. That's not actually helpful, but when you say, who do you know? Then their brain turns on, right? And they're like, oh, maybe this leader. Oh, maybe this person. Oh, so be direct without being aggressive or, you know, like weird about it, but give them an opportunity to actually answer the question instead of just throwing the ball casually in their court and just watching it like drop and bounce. away, you know?

    Lisa: Love it. Okay, how else have you got in business? That's amazing.

    Brea: So I think asking people who you patronize to patronize you is like a great way to kind of start that referral partner process. And then can you co-host something together where they invite their people, you invite your people and and those relationships start to meld. One way that I've found to be incredibly helpful and lucrative is at a co-working space because a lot of my clients are smaller businesses or entrepreneurs or, you know, people in the local community and they office out of a co-working space and the co-working space already has clients, right? They've got people that are there who need my services. So I can offer the benefit to the coworking space of professional development. Here are a lot of small businesses who don't have a budget for that or just, you know, startups that need and desire professional development, but they don't have the big corporate budget or the corporate vendors, the systems. And so I can just come in and provide that for the coworking space. And the coworking space is providing me with the people. We do a little intro workshop and then Boom, we're off to the races.

    Lisa: Okay, amazing. I mean, audience built in. My version of that, I have one that is similar but a different thread. I would call it adjacent groups. So for example, I think of my favorite match of an audience. So over the years when I would lead workshops, The ones that just always felt so aligned and like great fit were marketing teams. And so then, OK, what are the marketing associations? American Marketing Association, there's a national something, National Association for Advertisers. It's ANA, I think. But anyway, different groups like that, where you go to the trade associations, but not in what you deliver. So I didn't say, Go to the CliftonStrengths Association, because I do CliftonStrengths. I moved over to something adjacent. I thought of my audience, and then my audience's group, because that's not going to be filled up with people who do what you do. Just like I mentioned manufacturers earlier, if I went to a manufacturing association, and I delivered something as a CliftonStrengths person, it's going to look really unique, and the concept might be very unique to them. And it's not just flooded with people doing the same thing. So adjacent groups are a really cool place to provide development, just like you're talking about with that audience that is already sitting there, where they wouldn't have gotten that education otherwise, if you delivered a speech or a workshop for that group.

    Brea: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. And if workshops are not your thing, if you're listening and you're thinking, oh, I'm a coach, you know, I don't want to go out there and do an intro workshop to get people. Try a book club. Partner with a local bookstore or a local library or a local group that's adjacent and do a book club. And when they get to know you and they hear what you have to offer, then that easily can transfer into a coaching engagement.

    Lisa: Beautiful. Well, I'll share my favorite thing. And that is I love email marketing, as you know, probably as much as I love prospecting. I love email marketing. I love the automation of it. I love how I can educate and help people. And I can write a thing once and it can serve 100,000 people with that one writing. I think it's so cool. And so once someone is on my email list, I have a couple of years worth of those nurture sequences to keep educating them and keeping them up on whatever topic. So being of service. But what is so cool from a business building standpoint is, if they're of value, and people stay subscribed, then you become part of their daily flow. And I have had dozens, I would guess on the order of about 50 events, where people hit reply on one of those emails way into the sequence. They are 18 months in, they're two months in, and they're like, oh, hey, we're having a summit in three months and we're planning, we need a speaker, can you speak on X date? Those gigs are so great. They know you and love you. They've received content for months or years, and they're literally just saying, I have a gig in this city on this day. Are you available? Let's go. I mean. What can get better than that, where they're literally just like plopping it at your feet?

    Brea: Yeah, I think that's so good. You have to be visible. And so your email sequence is making yourself visible on a regular basis, right? Weekly in your case. I don't do email marketing like that. My version of being visible is when I go to a coffee shop, I take my laptop and I'm just going to do some admin work to get my energy from the vibes. I'm going to bring a book. Maybe it's a StrengthsFinder book. Maybe it's, I don't know, it's The Manager or Strengths for Students. I've been working on some offerings for students, high school students and their parents. I'm going to bring the book and I'm going to set it on the table. so that anyone walking by or looking in my direction sees the book and if that connects with them in some way, there's an opening for a conversation and it's making my offerings visible. And then they come to me and they say, oh my gosh, StrengthsFinder. I love that. I did that at my job two companies ago and I really wish that my company that I'm at now would do it. And I'm like, oh, really? Tell me more. Let me help you with that, right? So clever.

    Lisa: And they're coming to you. They're approaching you.

    Brea: That's right. So make yourself visible and it doesn't have to be like you get a sign and you're standing out on the street corner and you're like, hey, mattress sale today. Come on in. You know, it doesn't have to be crazy.

    Lisa: You have that sandwich board. You're swinging that sign around that goes in the twirlies that is like, strength coaching here.

    Brea: Right, right. I mean, if that's you, do you. But I think most of us, it could be as simple as just putting a book out for people to react to. I love co-working spaces. I just joined a new place. I've been wearing a name tag. It just says, hi, I'm Brea. Or sometimes I'll say like, please say hi. You know, I, I love people, you know, or something, something that kind of catches people's eye. So again, it's an invitation. And if they want to engage, they can. So just be creative, but be visible.

    Lisa: I love the creativity. Okay, let's see. I have one that I think is worth putting in here because it is the way I've gotten the most business over the years. Host a podcast and sponsor yourself. So by the way, you hear me talk about at the end of these episodes, you hear me mention Tools for Coaches, my membership that supports coaches. You hear Brea talk about going to brearoper.com for coaching. We have a podcast. We're sponsoring ourselves because that's who we're talking about, just like I did there. So that's part of the beauty is that you have some awareness of a service that we offer. And the way that I've systemized it to really make it work over the years is every time we do a podcast, we transcribe an episode. I turn it into a blog post. That blog post over the course of 11 years, having that many of them, even though we don't have a high frequency show, It's built really good search engine optimization. So people Google and find me based on the topic and just dropping in your contact form saying, I found you on Google, want to talk to you about an event. And that has been an incredible win. That's what everyone seems to wish for. And it really does happen.

    Brea: I love that. I just am so inspired by you, Lisa. Slow and steady wins the race. Consistency, your focus, you just kind of have built such a wealth of resources on your website, and it's working. So that's inspiring to me. Yeah, I think along those lines, you can write, you can host your own blog, or you can be a guest blogger. You can be a featured writer in magazines, newspapers, other publications. It could be on LinkedIn, it could be on social media, but also go out there and be a guest author in a real publication. Again, obviously, target the publications that your people are reading. Use your strengths.

    Lisa: And books. I mean, look, in the speaking world, the most classic way to sell to customers is to have a book, be an expert in a topic, and you have a book, which is basically like a business card. It's something tangible that people put in there. hand to know about you and then of course like if you make a dollar or two a book and you sell one to every crowd you can get some momentum from that but books are a classic way of writing and getting customers especially in the speaking world.

    Brea: The last thing that I'll say is I think we've already touched on it but I just really want to call it out because it's so important is find your clients in the clients you already have. Don't sleep on your current or your past clients. The people who you've already sold to are most likely to buy from you again. So make sure you're always, always reaching out.

    Lisa: Yeah, I want to add on that two specific ways. Because I think what you just said is so important. So one way of doing that is, let's say you're doing a workshop or a coaching program, and you have feedback forms at the end. You can literally build in a yes-no checkbox kind of question at the end to ask them if they're interested in exploring one-on-one coaching on the topic that you just did. So, for example, let's say the company provided the budget for the kickoff. I could go back as the coach and say, 85% of people check they'd really be interested in this. Would it be of interest for you to explore how we can make this happen for your team? And also, if there's someone who's interested in one-on-one coaching and they might want to pay for themselves, it might be something they want to do individually as well. Feedback forums can be a really good place to introduce something that you have, a solution to their problem, something of interest to go further, and they just don't know ways to go further if you don't tell them. So that is a way to open the conversation.

    Brea: That has worked for me so many times. I actually do cards at the event, and I put them in a little bag or a box, and I draw for a little prize, because you don't want to force people, but you want to encourage people to fill it out. But I also put on those checkboxes like, are you interested in one-on-one coaching? Are you interested in bringing me to your school, to your church, to your, you know, fill in different places that you might go that are even outside of the workplace? Because people a hundred percent are not thinking that you might do that if they're experiencing you in their workplace, right? They're not thinking outside of that at all. So if that is something you offer, put that on the card as well. And then also have a place for them to put their testimonial. Just write something that they really loved about the day, and then boom, you've got a testimonial. And if you really, really want to just milk it for all it's worth, you can ask them if they have a referral. You know, so those those feedback forms or those, you know, those cards can really, really pack a lot of value.

    Lisa: Packing in the value. Okay, let's see value. Another technique is when you're in the process, let's say you have a workshop or a speech planned, you have an event in the works, You set up with the person who's sponsoring it for the company, you set up this extra call while you're in process, and it's a debrief call. You set it up in advance. And in the debrief call, you chat about what's next. And in the what's next conversation, You might be just saying, you know, like, congratulations, you've graduated type of thing. And here are some things you can think about going forward. And I have these things available to help you if you want to go deeper, you want to go further and ask people if they're interested in carrying it forward. And if they say no, I don't have the budget or no, not right now. But I would love to think about that for next year. Then you have the follow up for next year. But a lot of times they're like, yeah, I didn't know there was a next. I didn't know there was another step in this progression. And you already have the call set up. So it's not awkward. You're debriefing and you're chatting about what's next, how to carry it forward.

    Brea: Yes, how to really maximize their investment, right? How to set them up for success, continued success. Yes, that is, I'm just going to repeat what you said because it's so important, setting up the call ahead of time so that they're expecting it. Set up the workshop, set up the debrief all in the same call. It just flows so much better and feels better for both parties.

    Lisa: Yeah. Love it. It's part of the process. It's just part of the system. And it is a conversation that sounds natural and is natural. You don't want your thing to come to a conclusion and be like, okay, bye, abrupt, like just cut off. And it doesn't mean that somebody always has the budget or inclination to keep going, but they usually do. They want to maximize their investment. They want to keep things happening. And if they don't have the money to do that right now, they might have the money in six months if they're looking for a corporate budget or they have to get in the cycle, it might be next year. But those are those long tail things that just keep the pipeline full over time so that you don't look up and say, oops, I don't have any bookings now. What do I do? I'm starting from scratch again. No, if you're always doing this with every customer and you hit, let's say only 25% of those turn into business, that's a lot after you add them up over the course of years.

    Brea: Yep, yep.

    Lisa: I'll give my closing thought. Closing item, I should say, because I want to do one more. We're always talking about strengths. You and I both love CliftonStrengths. And I think prospecting is tough for a lot of people. And instead of having Brea's reaction that is like, I love it." Instead, people are like, I didn't like the thought of it. Oh my gosh, I wish they would just magically appear in my inbox. This is a great opportunity to say, pick a primary marketing channel. and pick something that aligns with your strengths. Like if you're a speaker and a workshop leader, and you love being on stages, then maybe webinars and speeches are the kinds of things you should think about as your primary lead gen. If you like the one-on-one interaction and that is what you need and want and sounds more meaningful to you, maybe you're gonna reach out to every person who's in your professional network from way back in the day and you just like log them up in a spreadsheet and you do a couple a day where you reach out and you say, hey, I'm doing this new thing. This is what I do. If you know somebody who needs X, I hope you'll send them to me and just get the conversations going in a way that aligns with you and your strengths. Because if you don't, you're going to wear yourself out, burn yourself out, and you're going to hate prospecting. One of the reasons I think Brea likes it so much is like she's giving these creative ideas like wearing a name tag that makes it approachable. So people are just like, oh my gosh, I want to talk to you. Well, she leads through communication. She wants to get people talking to her and she thought of creative ways to get people talking to her. How perfect is that?

    Brea: Yep. I mean, that's why I love it. Communication Woo Activator, top three. If there's a strength zone, this is it for me. I love it. I love it.

    Lisa: Amazing. I would come talk to you. I would come talk to you with that book on the table at the coffee shop. I would come talk to you with the name tag. Yeah. There are all kinds of ways to be creative to allow approachability. I mean, of course, a smile always helps make you be approachable, but there are a lot of other tools you can use that naturally draw people in to start talking to you.

    Brea: Totally. Yes. Use your strengths, baby. Come on. Come on. Use your strengths. Lead with your strengths.

    Lisa: And prospecting, dare we say, might actually be fun.

    Brea: Yes. It is. It is. I know, we already have gone so over time. So here's my closing thought. My closing thought is if you are interested in the idea of using your strengths to prospect, come to my website, no surprise there, brearoper.com. But this time I actually have a download for you. Send me your top five and I'll send you some ways to prospect based on your strengths.

    Lisa: Oh, that sounds really cool. I want that. I'm headed there now. And then for mine, Tools for Coaches. It's our group. And if you are listening to some of these and you're on the, like, in the Lisa land where you're like, Oh, yeah, she's talking about long tail over time. She's talking about evergreen email, she's talking about building systems that a little bit at a time have a compounding effect. If that kind of stuff resonates with you, those are the kind of systems and tools and templates I provide in the Tools for Coaches membership. Right now, the price is only $100 a month. So come on over and join us. Leadthroughstrengths.com/Tools for Coaches.

    Brea: Sounds good to me.

    Lisa: All right. Well, hey, Brea, we got to go. We need to go build some more business and start thinking about prospecting. 

    Brea: Oh, you're right. Yeah. OK, guys. Catch you on the flip side. 

    Lisa: Bye for now.

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 174 - How Low Ticket Offers Can Help Your Independent Coaching Practice

In this episode, Brea and Lisa explore the phenomenon of low ticket offers and how they can be a game-changer for your business. While high ticket items often steal the spotlight, we believe that low ticket offers have their own unique magic that can help you build relationships and grow your business.

Plus, we have a special invitation for you! Make sure to listen to the end for an exciting new opportunity to connect with other listeners, ask questions, and get support as you implement what you learn.

🎧 Whether you're just starting out or looking to expand your existing offerings, this episode is packed with actionable insights that you can implement right away.

Let’s unlock the potential of low ticket offers together! 🌟

    • The power of the no-brainer factor. Low ticket is a strategy for creating offers that your audience can’t resist, making it easy for them to say "yes!"

    • Transform Browsers into Buyers: By offering low ticket items, you can convert freebie seekers into paying customers. This shift not only establishes a business relationship but also increases the likelihood of repeat purchases in the future.

    • Creative low ticket ideas. Steal some of Lisa & Brea’s favorite low ticket offerings that you can implement in your coaching practice.

    • Leverage Existing Content: Coaches can create low ticket offers from existing materials, such as recorded webinars, activity guides, or coaching templates. This allows you to monetize content you’ve already developed, making it easier to generate income.

    • Build Trust and Value: Low ticket offers can help establish trust with your audience. When clients see the value in your lower-priced products, they are more likely to invest in higher-ticket items down the line, creating a sustainable business model.

    • Define Your Low Ticket Offer: Determine what your low ticket offer will be. Remember to make it a “no-brainer” for potential customers.

    • Repackage an Existing Asset: Look through your existing materials (like recorded webinars, handouts, or coaching questions) and package them into a low ticket offer. Aim to create something that provides value and can be easily sold, such as a workbook or an activity guide.

    • Ask For the Sale: After you create a clear offer, it’s time to communicate it to your audience. Remember, people who have bought from you before are more likely to buy again.

    • Automate Your Sales: Consider exploring ways to automate the sales of your low ticket offers, such as through email marketing or online sales platforms, to generate income while you focus on other aspects of your business.

  • Lisa: I'm Lisa. 

    Brea: I'm Brea. 

    Lisa: And today we're talking about a wallet phenomenon. It is all about low ticket offers and how they can help your coaching practice. 

    Brea: Ooh, I love a low ticket offer. Come on. 

    Lisa: Yes. Come on. 

    Brea: I'm here for this. Yeah. All this talk. I hear so many people like, oh, here's how you have the highest ticket.

    Lisa: Most high end product. That's all cool. If you can sell $100,000 product. Cool. I love you for it. It is amazing. I have sold six figure product. things as well, or services rather, but low ticket is its own phenomenon. It has its own magic. I personally love having low ticket in the portfolio of a coaching business.

    Brea: Amen. Yes. I mean, that's how I launched my business was a hundred people, a hundred dollars, a hundred people in 60 days that I was able to coach. And that was the foundation for an eight plus year business, you know, so. 

    Lisa: Yeah. OK, so let's just do dollar definitions and then we can do a little bit of a greater definition. But if you say low ticket, what is a dollar amount of a we're talking U.S. dollars if you want to do a conversion from another currency. But what is approximately a low ticket offer in your world?

    Brea: In my mind, I think $100 or less is a no-brainer. When I think of low ticket, I think, what is something that you could put out there and almost every single person, nine out of 10 people, could say yes without having to think about it, without having to ask for permission from someone, without having to get special funds. Just $100, sure, I'll try it.

    Lisa: I would say something very similar but in my mind it's all about the no-brainer factor like I like to get in a $25 or under zone because I want it to be true no-brainer like literally they just go oh I will, yeah, sign me up. I'm not even going to think about it.

    Brea: I would be an idiot if I didn't say yes.

    Lisa: Yes, yes. So personally, I like the person, not the value of the offer, because I do think it is cool in a low ticket offer. If you could say, here's a Lamborghini product, but you're going to pay a Camaro price. If they can get that vibe on the value difference, then of course, they're going to be like, oh yeah, I'll put my $100 in. But that idea of offering something that has way higher value is super cool. But I like that. Yeah, that very low ticket is for me and the strategy that I have behind low ticket. I like it to be very low.

    Brea: Yeah. And you know, this, gosh, this conversation could go so many different ways. Like, you know, a $9.99 offer, a $10 offer could be an upsell, right? If they're buying something online and then it's like, oh, here's another $10 thing. Do you want to just add that on to the course you bought or, you know, the coaching package or whatever? That's one kind of low-ticket offer where it's coming at the end of the purchase. I think when I think of low-ticket offers, most often I think of something that's coming at the very beginning of that customer journey to bring them into your sphere and start working with them in a small way. Kind of like you dip your toe in the pool before you jump in just to get acquainted. That's not so much of a shock. That's, I think, a great use of low ticket offers as well.

    Lisa: I am absolutely with you. I think the biggest magic you can get out of it is on the front end. So I have two favorite things. One, I have, as an example that is concrete, I have $10 activity guides someone can download and they don't have to be a trainer type. They don't have to have any special training. and it allows them to run a mini team building kind of conversation with their team. So those conversation guides slash activity guides, 10 bucks. I mean, it's one of those things like I love that for those who can't afford the bigger service right now. But you know, they'll stay in touch with you. And later, they might become your deeper clients in that way. But one of my favorite ways is totally a different strategy. It is when someone signs up for your list. It's like, Hey, you just downloaded this thing, this, this freebie on conflict. If you click here, you can also grab for $10 this more robust version where I can walk you through being able to lead a conversation like this with your team. I think that is such a cool way and I have so many reasons for it because it's easy to spend the money. You're converting a prospective customer into a legitimate customer. Now they're not just lurking around. Now they're not just looking at freebies. They are now a customer and people who have already purchased from you are so much more likely to stay in touch with you and purchase again. And I think probably the more important thing, you're establishing a business relationship with this person. And I hear people all the time say, well, I have all these people and they're just around for the free content. I have the tire kickers, I have the freebie seekers, but I don't have people who transact. Well, I think that if you put out so much free content everywhere all the time, it's great. And that is a good thing for being able to have brand awareness and establish relationships. But think of it, it's kind of like they view you like a charity. And you have a business and you have to make offers to not go out of business.

    Brea: That's right.

    Lisa: So this changes the relationship. So some things are free content, some things are for sale, and it normalizes a relationship that you have offers and you have a business, not that you are only a charity where they come to get only free. And I think that dynamic in the relationship, and listen, we're talking about the shift happening over $10, but it totally changes the mentality in the relationship, and I think in such a good way.

    Brea: A huge way. You know, this is so key. As you're sharing, I was just thinking about all of the conversations that I've had. with other coaches or other business owners who say the exact same thing. I'm putting out all this content, I'm showing up on socials and no one is buying. And so I just ask, well, have you asked them? You know, have you asked them to buy? And they're like, wait, what do you mean? And I'm like, have you put out an offer? Have you actually said like, here's something and this is what it costs, you know, or are you only doing the free stuff to try to get them into your funnel? There's all this noise out there about getting people into your funnel and the purpose of the funnel is to get them to buy. It's not the end, it's the beginning. It's surprising to me how many people forget to ask for business and to your earlier point, to ask for repeat business. Right? People who have already purchased for you are the most likely prospects for future sales. So ask, ask, ask, ask. You have to, you have to ask. When I think of transforming browsers to buyers, the difference in my mind is the browsing, the free content, you know, the things you want to put out there that you might not be charging for. That's the why. Why should you do business with me? Why is it important? And what that sounds like to the customer is what is the problem that you're facing, right? The free stuff should connect with them in a way that says, ooh, this is my person, Lisa. Like she gets it. She gets me, she gets my problems, she gets the situation I'm in, however you want to say it. I understand why I should do business with her and that she can help me. She's the person. And then you charge for the how. you're not going to tell them how to fix their problem or you're not going to give them the solution for free. You're going to charge for that. So if your freebie is attracting them into your funnel, then what you're offering them in even a low ticket way is just maybe here's the first step to the solution and then they can pay more for a bigger offer that offers them more later.

    Lisa: Yes, yes, yes. I actually attended one recently and I thought it was a clever idea. I did a boot camp that I paid $25 for and the boot camp, this was extremely inexpensive for what it was. And so as you might imagine, now that I've said that, this boot camp is the start of his funnel. And so you're in the boot camp, and then you're getting upsold into a more expensive product set. And it was great. It's totally fine with me. I only paid 25 bucks. It made it a no brainer for the bootcamp. And truth be told, I already had plans for that week that did not include working. And so I skipped every day except the first day and I'm planning to go back to replays and whether I do or not, I don't know, but I want to. That is another thing about like, it's so low ticket that if I lost $25 over it, I'm not going to lose any sleep. But I also didn't want to lose the opportunity to get this content for only $25. So it was more important for me to take the chance to buy it. And then I'm supposed to watch the replays within a year or they disappear. A year is plenty of time. So, I'm totally happy and if a year goes by and I didn't do it, then I still thought that was a risk worth it because it was such a no-brainer dollar amount.

    Brea: I mean, we are in the age where most people would agree with you. I've spent money on things that I haven't used because it's like, oh, it's such a great offer. So, yeah, I get that. I think low-ticket offers are also an opportunity to to build trust with people. When we first started talking, it kind of triggered something inside of me of like, sometimes there is such a thing as too low of a price in my mind. If you're selling a Lamborghini for a Camaro price, You definitely don't want to sell a Lamborghini for, I don't know, whatever is less than the Camaro price. Because then people, they kind of lose a little bit of trust. They're like, wait, this sounds too good to be true. So you don't want to sell something that's $2,500 for $25, right? So there is, there is something I think to be said about low ticket might be under $100, it might also just be like, look, if you've got a $10,000 coaching program, maybe the low-ticket version or the low-ticket offer for that is $1,000, not $100, but $1,000.

    Lisa: I'm with you there on value. So let's talk about, as the coach who's building a practice, many coaches have these portfolio businesses. You lead workshops, you do one-on-one coaching, you have group programs, you have all kinds of things. This can introduce the variety of topics, like low ticket can mean, Oh, look, I've delivered these 10 other workshops, but people tend to know me for this other thing. So you could have these low ticket offers in those areas that people don't yet know you for and you want to start to get them exposed to you in that new way. And it's totally low risk for them to do it. Think about things like You did a webinar and you recorded it on Zoom. Now you have a product you could go sell as a low-ticket offer. You have a really cool handout or workbook or something that you use in a framework. Like, let's say you have a workshop that you offer on delivering feedback, and then you have this really cool model for delivering feedback, and you have a handout and a guide on it. And it's sitting in your Dropbox folder and you could just package it up and have a low ticket thing. Like go dig around your files for two or three hours. I bet you could come up with 40 things that you could sell for $10.

    Brea: I believe it. I believe it. I've done that. I do that, you know. I have to be intentional about that because I'll just create and create and create and it'll sit and sit and sit and it won't even be sold the first time, you know, because I learn as I do, right? So there's so much stuff that's sitting there just waiting to go out and I love it when coaches come to me and they say, you know, hey, what have you done for I don't know, someone came to me a couple weeks ago and she said she was looking for name cards that she could put into like lanyards for presentation and I was like, oh yeah, I have a template and I sold it to her and it saved her time. It was a win-win for both of us. I was able to customize it for her with her branding. It was a low ticket offer, you know, and it helped her and it helped me. So I think there's people have tons of stuff like that.

    Lisa: Yes. And if you know that you're going to create things like this, you could do it with the thought in mind like, hey, I'm going to make this so it could be white labeled for later in your case. Or if it's an end product like a handout that you want to sell, you could just be thinking, oh, if I wanted to sell this as a standalone, what I need to add to my process right now. literally within 30 minutes, you could have your first one done. And then after that, each one might take five minutes.

    Brea: Yes. It's always the first one, which is often why people don't do it. Right. Whether it's this or anything is just like, Oh, I have to go buy this software. I have to, you know, go put this thing together, you know, this web page or whatever. I have to add this to my, my Squarespace website. But once it's there, Boom. That's it. I love it. The other thing about low ticket offers, all this noise that's out there that's like, oh, you have to sell all the high ticket offers and you have to make a lot of money every time you sell. McDonald's does not sell high ticket offers. And they, you know what I mean? You can sell cheeseburgers for 99 cents or I don't know whatever it is now, but for very low ticket and be the number one hamburger chain, you know, I'm just making up statistics, but be something that everyone recognizes, right? I mean, McDonald's is, is huge. because they sell cheeseburgers, because they sell fries. So you can get rich on low ticket offers. I guess that's what I'm saying. You don't have to sell high ticket if you don't want to at all. It doesn't have to be- It's not the only way. Yeah, it doesn't have to just be like, oh, you should add a low ticket offer to be supportive. That could be the main meal.

    Lisa: It could, it could. And I think that's an interesting model conversation because If it's a low ticket and someone comes back again and again and again, that relationship, it's easy to keep the relationship going. One thing that's difficult about high ticket, I know on this podcast I've told the story about having the $29,000 solution and then challenging myself to add a zero and I sold the $279,000 package and I thought I was so cool. But there's so many, I mean, okay, I'm doing a little high five to myself here for that. Also, how many of those have I sold? Right, right. Certainly not very many so If you want to go whale the rare, you know the rare Yeah, yeah, and some people have a really good time they chase those and they do all RFP business because they're out there doing those requests for proposals and they're looking for those massive multi-million dollar contracts and And that is totally a legit business model. And just as legit business model is selling $25 at a time, a bunch of times to someone who just loves swimming in your ocean. And over time, it'll be like, oh, they bought this activity guide. And then a week later, they bought this one. And then two months later, they bought this other one. And then, oh, look, they started coming to every webinar I deliver. And then, oh, look, they became a workshop customer. It's so fun.

    Brea: It's very rare that you get someone to the altar on the first date, right? You know, it's very rare that you're going to just sell your high ticket item to someone out of the blue. And you can either chase them personally with phone calls, with meetings, with emails, however you do it, or you can sell them things. You know, I mean, it's amazing.

    Lisa: Yeah. Yes. I like this metaphor. Like we're not trying to get married and do the $100,000 gig deal. We are on a coffee date.

    Brea: Yep, that's right. And just getting to know me. And I mean, because like you said, a lot of these low ticket offers can be automated. That happens while you sleep. You're not even doing anything. It's easy. And you're putting yourself out there and keeping your business top of mind with your future customers or with past customers. And that's what's motivating them to buy in the future.

    Lisa: Yes. Okay. I'm doing this off the cuff, so we'll see what we can come up with. Let's see if we can come up with a back and forth, like five different things that a person who's a coach, especially the portfolio business kind of coach who does workshops and coaching, what kind of thing could they sell for 10 bucks? Or let's just say low ticket.

    Brea: Go. So something that a lot of people don't know about is private podcasts or even just audio. That's something that I love to offer as a low ticket item.

    Lisa: Good one. I know you like to talk about Hello Audio as one of those.

    Brea: Hello Audio, that's right. Shout out to Nora if you're listening.

    Lisa: Okay, that's good. Okay, I'm going to say go back through Zoom recordings and see what you've delivered that you could sell the recording that already exists. If you just do a little trimmy trim and then you could sell that.

    Brea: Boom. Love it. Love it. How about audio coaching? I mean, you're picking up on my communication. Number one, I love audio. But like pre-recorded coaching questions, reflection questions, mantras, you know, whatever you want to package it up as so people can hear your voice, experience your coaching questions every day without paying the big ticket price for one-on-one coaching.

    Lisa: Oh, I'll tell you one. I hear everyone in the audience, somebody put this out before I do, because I've been thinking of it for years and have not executed yet. It's just basically a workbook of coaching questions, and they're tailored to whatever thing you want to guide them through. And you give them something $100 or less, and they take themselves on their own, their own personal retreat, and you just write up prompts, and you package it up in a beautiful workbook that they can print out and take with them.

    Brea: Well, shoot, Lisa, I've got a few of those in my vault. I should just pull them out and sell them. That's a good reminder. Yeah, tomorrow. That's funny. I actually just made another one for a one-on-one client.

    Lisa: Well, how many of those do we have as coaches? We do a coaching session, and we're like, oh, they're focused. Like, pick a thing. Oh, this person's really focused on their goals for the year. This person's really focused on weight loss. Like, pick the thing. And then you know you have 20 questions you could support. And if you did a one-on-one coaching, you might even send them follow-ups that you drip out, things like that. Those are all right there under our fingertips, right at the tip of our tongues. It would be so easy to create those from scratch. And we just don't. And it would be so easy to do it and sell it.

    Brea: Yep. Yep. And I mean, I have to say it just because it's probably one of the most common things. It's common because it works is an ebook or a guide, 10 steps to something or 10 easy ways to, you know, just a, a real easy PDF download. People love that. They love that stuff, but go for like seven things or 10 things. There's a lot of psychology behind that, but those are numbers that people like.

    Lisa: Mm-hmm. And then your deep dive extra private podcast that explains each of them and what to do to really take action Like you could just build from one thing to the next and take your lead magnets and build on them. That's right Okay, I want to build on my activity guides I think that idea of setting up one page guides that someone else can facilitate, it is so powerful. How cool to have, like, I just think about when I was a manager early on, like a frontline manager, and I didn't have a team building budget to go access, I would have spent $10 of my own money. And that is such an easy one to create and so powerful for what you're providing them. with. I think it's a really nice one for those of you who have a workshop business or a content business. Totally.

    Brea: Yeah, and for those of you that are listening, you can probably hear the difference in Lisa's brain and my brain. I don't often think about the auto magic or the repeatable, but I love being live. I love being connected even in the low ticket offers. Um, so don't limit yourself to something that they have to download or something that works while you sleep. You can make low ticket offers that are inclusive of your time, you know? Yes. Yeah. Yes.

    Lisa: Yeah, you're right. That is not my first go-to.

    Brea: I mean, I've done so many webinars over the years that are $100 a seat or $97 is usually the price that I do because of psychology. But, you know, $97 a seat, that's a low ticket price. But if I sell several seats to the same webinar in that hour, then it's worth it for me.

    Lisa: Yes. Yep. And now you have a customer, you have a different relationship with that person, and they're going to buy from you in the future, and you've established that relationship at a deeper level. Yes, yes. Because I'm going to come away from that $97 being like, I want more brand.

    Brea: I want more, yes. And here's the thing. I find a lot of value in saying, look, spend $97, come to this webinar. It's not going to be recorded. There's value in that. There's attraction in that as well. And it gives a different message, you know? So yeah, just another way to look at it.

    Lisa: And you know, I think you're bringing up a different angle on the money, but also you're bringing up a different psychology in terms of putting yourself out there. So if I go to your $97 webinar and I know that it's going to be recorded and resold as a participant, I'm going to be a little bit guarded about what I say because I know any person in the world could buy this and see exactly what I said. And if you say it's not going to be recorded, I'm going to show up in a different way. That's me personally. I don't know if everybody is like that, but I would show up differently if I knew it wasn't going to be recorded. And then, of course, you have the scarcity like, well, you know, buy it here because it's not just something you can download later for free.

    Brea: That's right. And you have to sell them something else if they want to keep engaging with you because they don't have a recording from that to go back to and revisit. Right. So they're more engaged. They're more invested because they've shown up in a more vulnerable way, most likely. And they're primed and they're ready to purchase more to keep going down that journey.

    Lisa: Yeah. Okay. This was a fun exploration of low ticket. I think for a lot of people, this is kind of a new phrase, even thinking low ticket, high ticket, what kind of ticket? They just think, here's what I do. How much should I charge for that? That's a whole question, a whole different show. What should I charge for that? But this idea of having low ticket in your stable of offerings is a valuable conversation to have and a valuable thought to make sure you run through. Brea, did you have a low ticket thing you wanted to share with the audience?

    Brea: Oh my gosh, you know what? I think about all the people who are listening and I hope that you listen and you're like, wow, this is really exciting. I want to do a low ticket offer in my business or I want to add a group coaching program to my business or I want to take whatever the topic of this episode is and I want to do that in my business. And then life happens and you don't take action. If that's you, here's my invitation to you. Let's do a virtual little meetup on the off weeks. We release an episode every other week. So on the weeks that an episode doesn't release, we're going to meet up all the listeners who want to come and discuss whatever the topic of this episode is. I'll be there to answer questions and let's do it. Let's get the work done. Let, let me create a space for you to come together with other listeners of the podcast and actually get this stuff done. So if that sounds good to you, if you want to spend some time connecting with other listeners and connecting with me, go to my website, brearoper.com and come join us.

    Lisa: Love it. Love it. Well, I'm not going to say any call to action this time because I'm just going to leave that at Brea's so that you can go hang with Brea.

    Brea: Oh, well, thank you. I just, I really want to know who you guys are. I believe you're out there, but yeah, I would love to, love to connect with you. So just come on, you know, and let's get, let's get some work done. Let me activate you and, and let's connect with each other.

    Lisa: Yes. Is there a thing like Strengths Twins Activate? Where did that come from?

    Brea: Oh, I don't know. I mean, Richard Starey keeps a database of strengths for people to match them to twins.

    Lisa: Yeah, it's not the Strengths. What is that? StrengthsTwins.com. That's really cool, but it's not what I'm thinking of. There's something that's like Power Twins Activate or something that I don't know because I'm so missing non-pop culture.

    Brea: That's so funny.

    Lisa: I keep thinking of Inspector Gadget, but that's not it.

    Brea: I don't even know either.

    Lisa: People tell us. Look how lost we are. We need you.

    Brea: You need to come to the meetup to let us know. Cool. All right. Well, this was fun. I feel like hopefully there's a lot of value there for people. But don't just let it sit. Go and do something with it. Do it on your own or come do it with me and do it with other listeners. Let's do it.

    Lisa: One thing, one little thing, because after you do the first one, the rest will seem easy. Talk to you later. 

    Brea: Bye, guys.

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 173 - Lumpy Revenue – Does Your Practice Feel Up & Down?

Lumpy cash flow. Unpredictable income. Feast or famine. If you own your own coaching business, you’ve probably ridden the revenue rollercoaster a time or two. Scary for some, and exciting for others. Either way, this episode is for you! Join us as we explore strategies to smooth out the lumps and create stability in your cash flow, OR learn how to lean into the dips and curves so you can, dare we say, enjoy the bumpy ride!

🌟

    • Embrace the Lumps: It's completely normal to experience fluctuations in your income. These ups and downs are part of the entrepreneurial journey, and don’t reflect your worth as a business owner. Instead of feeling like something is wrong, let's recognize this is a natural part of running a business. By accepting the lumps, we can better prepare for them, and even leverage them to our advantage.

    • Create Predictable Revenue Streams: Finding ways to smooth out the revenue can help alleviate the stress of unpredictable cash flow. Consider strategies like offering retainers, group coaching, or digital products to establish a more stable revenue base. This can help smooth out the highs and lows of your cash flow.

    • Nurture Relationships: Stay in touch with past clients, even if you're not actively selling to them. Simple gestures like sending a handwritten note or a small gift can keep you top of mind for future opportunities.

    • Align with Your Strengths: Build your business around what you enjoy and excel at. When your offerings align with your passions, it becomes easier to sell and maintain enthusiasm for your work.

    • Identify Revenue Patterns: Look for seasonal trends in your business. Recognize the months or periods that tend to be busier or slower, and plan your strategies accordingly.

    • Create Consistent Income Streams: Explore options for establishing a steady base of income, such as offering retainer agreements, creating group coaching programs, or developing digital products that can be sold repeatedly.

    • Nurture Past Client Relationships: Implement a system to stay in touch with past clients, whether through email marketing, or more personal outreach. This can help keep you top of mind for future opportunities.

    • Leverage Your Strengths: Align your business strategies with your personal strengths and preferences. Focus on what energizes you to make selling easier and more enjoyable.

    • Prepare for Lumpy Revenue: If you're considering transitioning from a corporate job to full-time entrepreneurship, assess your appetite for lumpy revenue. Create a financial plan that includes a savings runway or a solid customer base to mitigate the stress of unpredictable income.

    🎧 If you're navigating the challenges of lumpy revenue or just looking for some inspiration, I encourage you to listen to this episode! Let's embrace the journey together and find ways to smooth out those lumps.

    #Entrepreneurship #BusinessGrowth #Podcast #LumpyRevenue #Networking #Coaching #SmallBusiness

  • Lisa: I'm Lisa. 

    Brea: I'm Brea. 

    Lisa: And today we're talking about my humps, my hump, my hump, my hump, my lovely income lumps. Check it out. Brea, do you know what I'm referencing there?

    Brea: I do. Is it Black Eyed Peas or is it just a Fergie thing or am I totally off?

    Lisa: It's one of the two. I mean, it is Fergie's voice, whether it was Black Eyed Peas or Fergie solo, I'm not sure. You nailed it. If it's music, you know I've got a little bit of it. If you talk movies, forget it. I've got songs floating in my head all day, every day. So there you go. Yes.

    Brea: So our lovely revenue lumps.

    Lisa: Revenue lumps. We're talking about lumpy revenue, lumpy income, lumpy cash flow, lumpy demand. Some people even call these lumpy businesses. We're talking about these solo practices that many of us have, or small practices that are coaching, training, workshops, and they don't have predictable, steady, stable income, and it is the bane of the existence of many coaches. It freaks people out. They talk feast or famine. They don't know if it's normal. And they also want strategies for it. So, yeah, let's talk. I know you're going to want to define what we're talking about, Brea. So take us down the definition trail and then let's jump in.

    Brea: I mean, honestly, you did such a great job. You used feast or famine. I think that's a great, like, that clues us into what we're talking about. It's unpredictable. You know, this is unpredictable cash flow. Maybe another term would be seasonal. This is often seasonal business. And I think This is something that we can all relate to because a lot of the work that we do as entrepreneurs, as consultants, as you know, whatever it is that you're doing, a lot of it is project-based, right? So obviously that's not a consistent cash flow. There's a beginning and an end to that. And because we're selling into other markets that have slower sales cycles. In a previous episode, we talked about selling to corporate. That's maybe a longer, slower sales cycle than some other cycles. But there are cycles, there are seasons, there are longer lead times and shorter lead times. And and there's such a reliance on other people, on referrals, on things that are outside of our control that lead to this kind of lumpy, bumpy life. So today I would love to talk about what are the lumps and bumps that we're experiencing because, first of all, I don't think we talk about it enough. People just feel like there's something wrong with them, you know, if they're not perfectly consistent and that's not true. So let's just call it what it is and say it's actually normal to experience this rollercoaster of revenue.

    Lisa: Oh, rollercoaster revenue, there's another good one.

    Brea: Yeah, and maybe can we talk about how to create some predictable, consistent revenue streams that make the highs and the lows, the peaks and the valleys a little bit more tolerable, right? I'm just laughing.

    Lisa: It used to be on the inside, but it came out. I was trying to think of the name of that shapewear that people wear under their pants to smooth out the lumps. What is that called? The Spanx. We are coming up with Spanx for revenue.

    Brea: Hey, I love it. I love it.

    Lisa: Yes. And then, okay, you also, I wanted to just call out that this topic came up because you and I were talking And you were like, I don't know what's going on, but are you seeing this trend? There's a mega activity right now. And you were talking about the good, you know, the lumps, the ups, the good part. And I was laughing because I had just been on a call where people were like, have you seen this trend? There's such a retraction. Everyone is freaking out and, you know, killing their budgets. And that is such a truth. in the peer groups that I've been in over a decade of doing this work, you get one person who is on a high and they are on a roll and then the next person is thinking the world is ending and we tend to assign our personal truths like that's what's going on for everyone and in every time, every time this goes on, you can look around and you can find examples of someone who's on the upper hump and somebody's on the lower hump.

    Brea: Yes, and we need each other so much. That's why these communities are so important. Hopefully this podcast is helping to fill that need to recognize that when I'm down, someone else can lift me up or I can be so excited that someone else is having a good day, even if I'm not. And then I can offer that energy when I'm on a high to someone else who might be on a low. And if we're both on a high, then we're sharing in that. And if we're both at a low, then we're sharing in that. So true.

    Lisa: Mm-hmm. OK. Well, should we get right into smoothing the lumps? Or is there more to talk about before ideas and business models and strategies for getting some predictability?

    Brea: Yeah, I want to talk about smoothing the lumps. I think Spanx for revenue is a very cool topic. And also, I kind of want to normalize the lumps. As a business owner, I don't mind the lumps. And I think part of that might be looking back and seeing, are there some patterns? Do I see that there are some seasons that are really high, some seasons that are slower? Can you find those patterns? And if you can, let's just, let's, let's just call it what it is, you know, and then lean into the highs and, and figure out some strategies to make sure you're, you're covered during the lows. It's okay to be lumpy and bumpy, is what I think I'm trying to say. And accepted. Yeah. I remember in 2023, I was expecting about three months of, I knew it was just going to be slower, where I'm not traveling as much, is what I mean by that. The work that I was doing was pretty much all virtual at the time. And I was like, you know what, I'm gonna go home to Kansas City and I'm gonna be near my family. I've got five nieces who I just love to pieces and why not go be near them for little things like baking cookies, going to pumpkin patches and showing up for sports games and Christmas recitals and all the things that I don't normally get to do when I'm living states away. So that's what I mean is sometimes the lumps and bumps can be to our advantage if you can just accept it and then make it work for you, you know?

    Lisa: Yes, I like that. And you were also making me think about how some lumps become predictable. So I would say over my 11 years in business, There are a couple of patterns that are pretty common, and that is October is super busy. People are using up their budgets, their corporate budgets, and they're trying to cram it in before the holidays. Then, and it might be 4x a typical month. Then November, you get a little bit of that carryover, and then it drops off for US Thanksgiving. And then, forget it, December is just going to be low. So that has been something I accepted from the beginning because I knew that from being in talent development teams and learning teams in corporate. I just knew that was how it went as far as workshops and events. And that was fine. And so December was either restful family time or if you have a month to develop something, oh, I want to create an online course, that December would be a great time. I know if I want to leave the business for three weeks and not reply to an email, that's the time of year to do it. Especially, yeah, that week between Christmas and New Year's and then January is going to explode. So that's a trend that even though it's lumpy, it feels very predictable to me at this point.

    Brea: Yeah. Yeah. And also that week between Christmas and New Year's, that's a huge week for me because the individual customers that I'm working with are not working at their jobs. You know, they have free time that they don't normally have. They have downtime and they have mental space in a way that they don't normally have when they're in the hustle bustle of the nine to five workday schedule. So they're much more open. Like that week is like, huge for VIP days or retreats or whatever it is that I'm offering that year. That's like one of my biggest weeks every year because I lean into it, you know, and I create an offering for that. So it really is just kind of looking at the lumps and bumps of the market and looking at the lumps and bumps, you know, in your own business and just deciding, do I want to smooth this out? Do I want to lean into it? Do I want to make the peaks and valleys even greater? You know?

    Lisa: Yes. Yeah, the deciding. Oh my gosh, you're hitting on it. It's so important because the same phenomenon that is going on the week between Christmas and New Year's, you're taking it and using it to make an uptick. And I'm using it to say, oh, if everyone's gone, this is amazing. No one will expect an email. This is a time I can really go dark and no one minds. So we're doing an opposite thing with it, with the lump. And that's good. And we both love what we're doing with it. That's such a cool one because it just proves that point out where one person is like, wow, are you seeing this mega bump? And the next person is like, whoa, I'm taking such a dip. Is everyone seeing this?

    Brea: Yeah, that's right. That's right. If you're experiencing some lumps and bumps, just know that you're not alone and you're not without hope. There's always an opportunity.

    Lisa: Yes. Well, let's talk about some of the things we've done to smooth lumps. So if you have ups and downs, but you have a bread and butter level that comes in, you don't mind the lumps because the bottoms become what used to be the top. That is a key to my strategy in I'm not caring as much about smoothing out lumps. I'm caring about raise the bottom level so that there's no freak out about bare minimum. There's no freak out about the bottom. I want the bottom to be steady and then the spikes at the top, that's great. That can come in. That's okay with me. How about you? What's your perspective there?

    Brea: Well, I agree, and this is something that I'm not naturally good at, and I think you are naturally good at and have just done such a great job of smoothing out that base. I mean, there were a couple years in my business when I didn't even know what that base was. So if you haven't started your business yet or if you are in the beginning stages, start there. Figure out what is your bare minimum and find some more consistent income, some passive revenue or some evergreen stuff or whatever to like give you that base so that the low doesn't feel as low.

    Lisa: Right, right, right. OK, so let's talk what we really did. I'll also throw in some ideas of things that I didn't do, but I see other coaches do that I love. But personally, what I did, so again, this is like Lisa strengths aligned. So as a listener, think about your strengths and match it up. For me, I love workshops. Those were my bread and butter. Also, speeches are great. So think of me as an event based person. I knew the downside to that is if I'm doing a bunch of one off events, That's not a consulting engagement that I have a contract signed for four years. If you could do that, that would be a version of consulting that would smooth the lumps. But I knew that isn't what I wanted. I didn't want to do that level of project management. I wanted to be in, be out, be done. And that feels enlivening to me. But I knew that would mean selling over and over and over again. So one of the things I did with that strength in mind and that desire in mind is I targeted corporate where I could find customers that have big talent academies or learning academies. And they could book many events at a time. So I would get people who would say, OK, let's book 20 for the year in January. And I had several of those customers. So I would have dozens of events just lined up ready to go from these academies because we would offer the same program over and over again to different audiences. And that was a way for me to be a spark and not have projects to manage and not have deliverables hanging over my head, which didn't feel like they aligned with my strengths and desires. and also kind of have that base come in where I felt really comfortable that the base revenue was going to be great. So there's one strategy, talent academies.

    Brea: Yeah. Anytime you can sell one thing and have it repeat over time. I mean, what a great strategy, right? I'm like you, Lisa, you know, I love events and I like getting in and getting out and not having those long commitments. So I love retainers when you can get them from a sense of, I love working with internal coaches who are, you know, they're championing the strengths effort at their company, but it's just one of the hats that you're wearing, you know? You've got so many other things going on. I love being that person in your pocket, that coach that you can rely on when you need a coach, when you need, some extra hands when you, you know, you're onboarding a lot of people and you just need a few extra coaching hours, but you're not looking to bring a coach on, you know, for long term. You just need a little bit of extra juice for a little bit of time. I love being that person and I can create a retainer for that. and just kind of level out that bottom floor, like you're saying, and still honor my talents of being able to flex and adapt and respond as needed, gives me the variety and the consistency, you know, at the same time.

    Lisa: Beautiful. Yeah. And Retainer, endless creativity there. You could do so many things on Retainer.

    Brea: So fun. So fun.

    Lisa: OK, that also made me think of filling a coaching book of business for one-on-one coaches. If you have packages and you're a one-on-one coach, you could fill your book of business and get to the point that you're filled and you have a waitlist. And that would be a way of smoothing the lumps. Of course, it would require selling and marketing and ongoing work. You can't sit back on your laurels when you're full or close to full. You have to kind of overdo it to keep people on wait lists, but that's a really good way to smooth it out if you're a one-on-one coach. Of course, you could do group coaching that has longer programs. Like if you have a year-long program, maybe they're on a payment plan that charges them once a month for the year instead of a one time. And just think of the image of that revenue. If they paid you in January for 12 months worth of work, would you rather have that spike of having it up front or would you rather have it leveled out over a 12-month payment plan? That's up to you to decide what you prefer there. Some would much prefer to have it up front. Some would much prefer to have the steadiness. So it doesn't mean lumpy is bad. I mean, a lump can be a super spike and that can be amazing and you might desire that.

    Brea: Yeah, getting people to pay up front. I love that.

    Lisa: Okay, another one that popped up for me is digital products. One of the things that I started doing years ago is if I created a cool workbook or some activity guides or some resources that would be follow-ups to a workshop, if I'm already going to create content that is new, which my individualization loves to do, One of the things I decided to do with myself is kind of like rules for life is, hey, you're going to indulge this individualization that loves to create new stuff. You better make it worth it. And maybe Maximizer's kicking it. Make it worth it. So can you resell this as a standalone product? Then those things are living on and serving customers and they're smoothing for you.

    Brea: Mm-hmm. You know, something else that I did not do very well for a while that when I started doing it made a huge difference is nurturing relationships with past clients. My talents are just, you know, high futuristic, high strategic, high activator, high a lot of things that are thinking forward, moving forward. So looking back is just not something that that I do naturally. And so once I was done, I was done. So again, learn from my mistakes and stay in touch with people, even if you're not selling to them. I love sending handwritten cards. I love just a a small like Starbucks e-gift card, you know, I can text that to someone and just say, hey, like coffee's on me today, or even just an email or, you know, it doesn't have to be a gift. It could be anything to just kind of stay in touch because you never know when they might want to be sold to, you know, or they might, might need you again. And if you don't stay top of mind, then you're not on their mind. So, Whether that's an email list, you know, like Lisa's really great at or I have my own creative relational ways of staying top of mind, like put in the effort. It's worth it.

    Lisa: Yes. Okay. I just have to build on that one. because I am the evergreen queen and I love email marketing software and how that can be used to deliver. You can use that software to deliver training. So I have the rest of the training, these activation courses that are delivered from my email marketing software. It's just a way of sending content out. And then from there, I have these nurture sequences that stay in touch for more than two years. after that initial contact. And I can't tell you how many times someone is way into it. They might be over a year into receiving a thing and then they go, Oh, we're doing a team summit. Are you available on June 15, 2027? I mean, they just pick a date out of it. It feels like it comes out of nowhere, but it didn't come out of nowhere. It's systematically in there. And that has been incredible for me, smoothing out the lumps.

    Brea: Oh gosh, there's just so much on my mind right now. I think I just want to say when we're talking about revenue, when we're talking about income, when we're talking about the highs and the lows and all of this conversation, it's so easy to attach our worth to the numbers that we're seeing on the screen or that we're not seeing on the screen. And I just want to encourage anyone that's listening to detach who you are, just to detach that from the data that you're seeing on the screen. Like you are not your business, you know? And if, if the market is changing, if the politics are changing, if, if you're seeing a down month, that doesn't mean you're a bad person or you're a bad business owner. It just means that this is happening and that's okay. So I guess I just am feeling inspired to speak that over people that are listening.

    Lisa: Because you know it happens so often. When I'm listening, I hear what you're saying and I'm thinking of the words and I'm like, lumpy revenue happened. Lumpy income happens.

    Brea: Yes.

    Lisa: Lumpy. And that's a thing. Like, you can just look at it and go, OK, that is a picture. It's on a chart. And there are plenty of business strategies that can address it. So if you see a trend you don't like, cool. You can come up with a business strategy that can smooth it out. Work with a coach who can help you smooth it out. Great. We all have the ability to build these businesses that are incredible and serve us. It's just this experiment. I feel like all of this is an experiment in aligning what makes the business go and what makes you go with your strengths and your values. It's just that constant messing with the dials and finding the experiments so that the business strategy, the revenue that comes in, your personal preferences, they can all find alignment. And sometimes it takes several years to play around and find all of that. And meanwhile, yeah, give yourself a break. You're building your selling skills. You're figuring out all this software. You didn't know you were going to become a full time marketer and salesperson and you're delivering on the work and you're trying to find a business strategy that there's a lot going on when you're in those first years of business. So have a play with it.

    Brea: Yes. And yes, all of that, rewind, listen to it again. Yes. And realize that even when you think you finally got it, like things will change. What worked for me seven years ago doesn't work for me today. You know, like not all the time, not in all the ways. So when things happen that are different, like the whole impetus for this conversation was my Vox Talisa that said, Why all of a sudden are these people that have been ghosting me for literally years? I have a client that I can now call them a client because they have paid me to come and do some work for them. But it's been eight plus years that I have been pursuing them, nurturing them. And then all of a sudden it's like, boom, we're ready. Some of those people are coming out of the woodworks. And so you just never know why some things hit when they do and some things don't. So just expect the unexpected, know that lumps and bumps are part of it. It doesn't mean that something is broken or wrong. It just means that this is happening. And how do we approach it? How do we respond? Those are the skills and talents to learn and to grow in yourself as a human and as a business owner because everything else is changing. Technology changes so fast. You know, what works with the algorithm today, in a few months it's going to be different. So just stay on top of things, but most important, stay on top of you. Build your business around your talents. Build your offerings around things that you enjoy delivering and want to sell because if you like it and you want to do it, then it's easier to sell, you know? So, um, that's it. I'll get off my pedestal, but I love this conversation so much. Yes.

    Lisa: Yeah. The mind exploding emoji. Like if you love it, you're going to bring an amazing energy around it and it's going to make it so much easier to sell if it aligns with you. So yeah, I think that alignment part and the worthiness thing that you brought up is an important undercurrent in this thing. Okay, I thought of a closing thought and it's a new idea, so I think it is important for those people who are side hustling or they are still in their corporate job but they have been dreaming of leaving and doing the coaching, workshopping, speaking kind of thing full time. This idea of lumpy revenue and whether you have an appetite for it is a consideration that's valuable to have before you decide to leave and put that in your plans, whether that means you have a longer savings runway. Or if you can get that level one covered so that the things that are on top of it are good, get that level one customer base. Prove to yourself that you can sell something, that you know what your product is, that you have your basic website up, those kind of things. That can be very helpful in bolstering that fear part that comes when people launch and leave. And it feels like The lumps are smoothed out before it's all on the line. So that's not something everybody needs to do but for someone like me that that would have helped a lot if I had two years to Make my business idea get things sold get the strategies going get all the nurture going that would have been Incredible for me to get rid of a lot of stress and fear. I had just going straight out of the gate

    Brea: Yeah, totally. My crowdfunding campaign did a little bit of that, you know, in the fact that I was able to launch with a hundred coaching sessions paid for, you know, but nothing else was done. I mean, it was just completely building the plane as we tried to get it off the ground. So a hundred percent, if I would have had the opportunity to give myself more runway, I mean, my goodness, I could have gone so much further faster. So two thumbs up, like I'm raising all my hands and all my feet, all my toes. I'm scared of two toes up.

    Lisa: What did I even say? I don't even know. Two thumbs up. Two toes up. I mean, drop the mic with that. That is where you end, just with that visual. We'll see you all later. I'm thinking of Brea's toes right now. Bye for now.

    Brea: Bye.

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out team workshops and retreats at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the Get Coached link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 172 - Starting a Coaching Business (The Backstory)

What do math dreaming, crowdfunding, and Sunday night heart palpitations all have in common? You’ll have to tune in to find out! 😀

Join us for some real talk about the common fears and hesitations many aspiring coaches face when starting their business, like feeling unprepared or overwhelmed by the need for a perfect plan. But fear not! You’ll be encouraged to embrace the messiness of starting out, and reminded that it’s okay to pivot and change your business model as you grow. 

So, whether you're in the dreaming phase or already knee-deep in your entrepreneurial journey, this episode is packed with insights, encouragement, and a few laughs to help you navigate your own path. Join us as we explore the ups and downs of starting a coaching practice. Let’s celebrate the beauty of building a business that aligns with who you are!

🌟

    • Embrace the journey: Every entrepreneur has their own unique path to success. And it doesn’t happen overnight. Whether you stumble into it or plan meticulously, what matters is that you keep showing up. 

    • Use your strengths: Instead of following what others say you should do, focus on what feels authentic and enjoyable for you.

    • Don’t fear imperfection: It’s okay to experiment, pivot, and change your business model as you learn what works best for you.

    • Community is key: Finding a supportive community can help you build belief in your abilities and access resources to navigate challenges.

    • Assess and Adapt: Regularly step out to evaluate your business. What’s working? What’s not? This reflection can help you make informed decisions about your business direction so you can grow with intention and maximize your impact.

    • Do it scared: Sometimes, the best opportunities arise when we least expect them. If you're feeling stuck or hesitant, remember that action often leads to clarity.

  • Lisa: I'm Lisa. 

    Brea: I'm Brea. 

    Lisa:
    Hi, I'm Lisa. And I'm Brea. And in today's episode, we're going to talk about Sunday night heart palpitations. Oh my gosh.

    Brea: Wait, what happened on Sunday?

    Lisa: I mean, actually, we're talking about starting a coaching business. That is part of my origin story. Instead of it being from starting a coaching business, it led me to start a business. But I just thought that was Yeah. Just a little teaser.

    Brea: Yes. Like you were not looking forward to Monday. So you were getting stressed out.

    Lisa: Well, you would think. But I would literally have this every single week in the job that I was in. And I loved my team and the CFO that I reported to. Like, it was just super cool on so many levels. And the role was a bad fit for me. And I literally had severe palpitations every Sunday night. And I would just I would sit on the couch and I would do breathing exercises. And you would think that I would, being such a health nut, that I would care about my cardiovascular health or otherwise. But it took a moment where my husband was actually in the room with me and he said, what was that? Because I had this hitch in my breath where I was like, and just trying to kind of breathe through the, the, the janky body systems. What was that? And I was like, sending out heart palpitations and he was like, uh, you need to quit. And he was like, you need to quit now. That is severe. And, and I was like, wait, are you serious? And he said, yeah. And I'm like, oh, um, that sounds really exciting, but I haven't planned anything. I don't know what I would do after this. And I am mega planner. I would totally have written it up differently, but I thought that would actually be a good part of this story because I didn't do it at all the way I would do it if I planned and I worked my regular system. But it was a time where a little intervention was called for and it took someone else noticing how bad it was for me to do the wake up.

    Brea: Wow. Okay. I like this. I mean, it's just so good to hear what other people have gone through. And I know that there are other people that are listening that have had a similar palpitation or a similar hesitation of just, I've thought about going for it, but I just, I don't have all my ducks in the row. I, I'm not quite there yet, you know, and very different experience on my end, but also similar in the way of, If I knew then what I know now, I probably definitely would not have done it the way that I did it. No preparation, you know, I mean, really, it was bootstrapped from ground zero. So similarities and differences in our story. Yeah, this is exciting. Okay.

    Lisa: I think this is a fun conversation for listeners because just like you said, some people are in the midst of the heart palpitations. Some people have been wanting to leave for 10 years, but they can't figure out like what it actually means. How do you know when your ducks are in a row? And some people are busy kind of filling their minds with this. But hey, like I've met people who had a pension and then they retired and they had money coming in forever. And they could use that to fund the business and not be scared. Or you must have had a buku bucks saved up, ready to go. And that made you confident. And I don't have the advantages that other people have. And the truth is, for a lot of us, it just takes courage, I would totally be the person who had preferred a plan. I would have done it absolutely differently. I would have spent a year or two figuring all those things out up front, because that would feel great to me. But it's not how it turned out that night, the heart palpitation night. We actually stayed up really late, which is odd for me. I'm like a be in bed by 10 o'clock kind of person. And it was one of those, like, stay up until 1 a.m. talking about all the things, like, what if I don't sell anything? Am I going to make us lose the house? What is the repercussion if I'm terrible at this? What if it all goes wrong? When it came down to it, after fast forward through like four hours of what's the worst that could happen, my answer was, if I lose it all, we'll go live in an RV. We're going to be camp hosts at some beautiful state park and life's going to be fine. And that never came true. But it did give me it gave me the confidence to to be like, all right, I'm not going to suffer and starve literally.

    Brea: Yeah, that's so interesting, because that conversation would have sent me running for the hills. I would have been scared out of my mind and never would have jumped. But for me, I didn't have the luxury of even asking myself those questions. I accidentally fell into being a business owner. And that's the honest to God truth, I never set out to like open my own business. I had an unfortunate series of just a lot of instability in different jobs. And at one point a contract was ending and I was just like, what am I going to do next? And strengths had always been something that I was very passionate about. I've used strengths in different jobs, different companies, different capacities on my own, but never really explored being a coach or doing that as a career, let alone owning my own business and doing that full time. That was never a part of my thought process until There was no next step. And it just so happened that the very next week after my contract ended was the certification course to become a strengths coach in Omaha. I was living in Omaha at the time. I walked out of one job and into the certification course and I was like, I know this is my next step. How was I gonna use that? I have no idea, but I'm gonna do it. How am I gonna pay for that? I have no idea. I've been a missionary for four years. I'm not making a lot of money. I don't have a lot in savings. So do you know what I did? I crowdfunded $10,000 to pay for my certification. And I went into my certification course with 100 paying clients, people who paid in exchange for coaching. So think of it like a pre-sell. They were on the books. I came out of that certification and I coached a hundred people in less than 60 days. And they were all different kinds of people. Stay at home moms, students, couples, professionals, people who were in job transition, people who were in the C-suite, people who were business owners, people who were individual contributors. I mean, I got so much experience right out of the gate and built the business just because I could, you know, one step at a time.

    Lisa: Yeah, and in the what went well column, I am hearing this brilliant thing that happened out of your creativity. And desperation, okay. Which does create a lot of stamina and motivation, right? Yes. That thing that happens often with coaches setting up their business and they are like, I don't know what I want to specialize in. I don't know what my niche is. I don't know what I love the most. And you coming out having a hundred people in 60 days. You got exposed to that wide swath of types of people and types of coaching that you just described. What a brilliant way to get in there and actually experience it. Because you're only guessing and hypothesizing. Like, if I would have picked my niche, and I would have done my year or two planning, doing all the things, I would have been guessing, and I know I would have guessed wrong, and I would have remade a lot of it, because I did that anyhow after I created it. What a beautiful way to get a head start on clarity of what you like and what aligns with your strengths.

    Brea: You know, it, it did bring a lot of clarity. Even more than that, it brought a lot of practice. You know, I just got a lot of reps really, really fast, which also brought a lot of confidence. And the thing that I love the most about crowdfunding was my life before strengths was a lot of marketing and sales and being a missionary. So by running this crowdfunding campaign, people seeing me every day posting different things about the campaign and strengths and all the things. Like, people knew Brea as the strengths girl, right? Instead of Brea the missionary or Brea, however we first, you know, connected and came to know each other, they knew about this change. So it was possible for me to make this. Not even a career pivot. I mean, this is a huge jump a huge change and I was able to bring people along because They were part of it. They were the bridge that got me there. So if you're listening and you were Part of that go for Brea campaign. Thank you so much because look at what we did It's amazing.

    Lisa: Go Team Brea. That is so cool. I definitely would mark that in the What Went Well column on about four different tallies. That's great. And I did mine differently, but I think we were both using our strengths for this What Went Well category. So I started a podcast and I felt really comfortable. This was early days of podcast. It was actually called Pinch Yourself Careers. I thought I was going to do more career transition coaching. And that is what the original name of this podcast was. It was the name of the business entity. And I'm just bringing this up because people are like, oh my gosh, I got the name wrong. I got the thing wrong. Me too. Me too. This podcast was totally a different niche than I ended up choosing. Pinch Yourself Careers, very different from the CliftonStrengths focus of today. When they were in career transition, I asked people, hey, What questions do you have? If you are in a career transition or you know someone in a career transition, send it through and then I'm doing Q&A and they would send an audio question through or even just a one sentence question and I would answer it in the podcast. So, I thought it was a really cool way to get the word out that I was playing in that space and I didn't have to have my sales pitch refined yet. I didn't have to have all that sitting down yet. It was, I was self-sponsoring my own podcast. And I was adding value out in the world. And people were getting to know me for being a career coach, then later, people development coach, then later specifically, team development and big corporate with CliftonStrengths, with, with team dynamics through CliftonStrengths. So, It evolved, but it was very comfortable. And I think because I felt good going back to my existing network, and I had a big corporate network because I always kept in touch with people, that felt like a natural way to plug in, be of service, and also start to spread the word that I was out there on my own offering a service.

    Brea: Yes, that's so great. That's a lot of ticks in your win column as well, using what has worked for you in the past in the pivot that you made. I think that's awesome. I definitely relate with the feeling of, oh my gosh, what am I going to name my business? What is my brand going to look like? And what is my website going to look like? And I have to get it all right because This is what people are going to see and this is how they're going to think of me. I don't know the answers. I'm just figuring it out. So how can I do all those things? But I need those things. So like, oh my gosh, it's so overwhelming. It's OK. You can change your mind. I just want everybody listening to hear you just get started. It's really not that big of a deal what you call your business. It's really not. It feels that way, especially if you have communication. Number one, hi. I get it, but like it's really not that big of a deal. Just so true. Get out there and go.

    Lisa: And even literally, like if you're in the U.S., not every listener is of course, but in the U.S. there's literally a thing called a doing business as. So on top of whatever entity you already bought, you set up a doing business as and you can add, you could have four of them. You can keep changing your name until you figure out who you are and then it's going to be fine. It is not a huge deal. It's not.

    Brea: It's really not. I love that. You know, I have a lot of things in the I wish I would have done it differently column as well. Okay, so the crowdfunding campaign was playing to a lot of my strengths. And I'm believing what the internet is telling me. I'm getting sucked into all the things that I hear and read from all the other business owners and the social media influencers that are telling me I have to do this. I have to do that. I have to do it like this. I have to do it like that. What were some of the whispers that were getting you? Oh my gosh, I was spending hours a day creating graphics to post and finding the right words to make the perfect post that would convince people, influence people to go for Brea, right? To pledge toward the campaign. hours a day. I mean, that's exhausting. When I realized it doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to get out there. And the easiest way for me to do that is talking. My talent is telling stories. My talent is on video. So I was just like, okay, Facebook Live, here we go. And I pushed a button and I would just talk and then it was done and it was out there and I couldn't edit it if I wanted to. So hours a day turned into minutes a day and the impact was so much greater. People were commenting and liking and sharing and pledging. The impact was there, the results were there when I started using my talents and stopped doing it like I thought that I should. So don't use my experience as a prescription of how you should move forward, but hear the underlying theme of use your talents to build your business and build your business around your talents. Create offerings that make sense for you because when you show up at your best, I mean, that's better for everyone else that you're serving.

    Lisa: Yeah, that sounds so amazing. I could just feel the momentum shift, even though you're taking us back via story, but I could feel the difference like, oh, I'm spending hours worrying about it. It's the same today. We hear the same story from so many people who are like, oh, I just labor over trying to create the perfect social or get myself on video and I don't want to be on there, but I should do this. I should do that. This is the formula. And the great question, it's so obvious being a strengths coach, but even those of us going into strengths coaching, we forget to say, what would be fun? What would actually make us feel alive? And then, of course, you're going to attract people to you who want to be in your circle. That's the kind of customer you want to attract when you're at your best. So perfect. Yeah, that's right. I did very different things. So if we want to just give a contrast on not taking Breas as a prescription, and then what are some other ways people get started? I lead through Maximizer. And I lead through Strategic. And so I'm always thinking of things like, Every time I would ask myself the question, every time I would create something, I would say, How can I maximize this over and over again? Can I recycle content? Can I put things out there that are so timeless, someone could use it? four months later, and it's still just as relevant. If I'm going to go out on social media and post something, it's going to disappear out of an algorithm within 20 minutes. So why not use it over and over again? I had that thought from the beginning, and it felt so cool to use that as a filter from the beginning. And so if I'm going to make a podcast episode, then I'm going to turn that into a blog post as well. I'm going to turn that into email marketing. it's going to be content that someone could enter at any time five years into the future or today. And it's going to be just as useful for them. And I'm going to put together a series so that everything I do compounds on top of the next thing. And it's like baby steps, building one thing after the other thing after the other thing. And all you have to do is put one foot in front of the other. So from the beginning, I was really strategic about that. And it felt wise, even though it wasn't the fastest momentum, I knew it was wise. And I knew that it was exciting to be able to take something and reuse it. And it really, really worked. It got me out of a lot of pinches later when I needed to step away from the business. And then I was still showing up because I was showing up in automations. that I had created years before. But it also, I was like, this is going to add up, even if I'm really busy and I only have time to do something once a month or once every two weeks, everything matters. And years later, it looks like years worth of content. And it happened really slowly. If you want everything to be lined up and perfect, and that leads you to do nothing, it's better to do something regularly. And I think that's a great lesson for anybody who's starting up

    Brea: That's right. I love so many things from what you shared. I want to dub you the evergreen queen. It's such like a, just a court to who you are. I don't know, hearing that, that was so natural for you, even from the very beginning. I think that that's a real superpower that you have. Yeah, that's cool.

    Lisa: Thank you. Yeah, there was another one. I think that one really spoke to my maximizer. One that I would say I both did well and I would do differently is when I was picking what I would focus on and what the business model would be, I remember going through strengths and thinking, all right, I lead through activator. I lead through strategic. I lead through these fast moving talents. I do not like having open loops hang over my head. And so I just decided I love kickoffs. It's sales kickoff meeting. It's your team summit. It's your team retreat. I love doing them and people need them and have them. So that is a what went well column. What I would do differently, though, is I might think a little more deeply about What could I have done to serve those customers more actively without it being a consulting engagement? Because I kind of wrote it off, like, it's either going to be kickoff and I'm out, which felt good, or it's going to be kickoff leading into a giant engagement. And I didn't like the idea of a giant consulting engagement. So I think what I would do differently there is I would have come up with more strategies to go deep in service of that customer without it having to be a consulting model because I was acting like there are only two choices, this way or that way. But that meant every sale I have to start over. Every prospect is a new prospect. And sometimes you get, you get spinoff business, you get repeat business, you get things like that. But I could have been more strategic about leveraging the accounts that I already had trust with and already had a relationship with. So give me a win tally because it was aligned with my strengths, but also give me a ding that I allowed myself to have to start over with the selling process.

    Brea: 100% that is my experience as well. And I am not surprised because we share some similar talents that I think are contributing to that pattern. But yes, I definitely wish that I would have put some more thought into how do I continue to nurture and maintain those relationships.

    Lisa: So you've worked with a lot of coaches also, we both have. What do you see they wish they would do differently after they come in and they feel frustrated, they feel like an incompetent business person and they're about to leave and go back to their former work lives?

    Brea: Wow, what a loaded question. You know, it might just be because I bring marketing experience, so these might be the kinds of coaches that I attract, but I hear a lot of, I need to be doing social media, I need to be doing email sequences, I need to be doing more of that, more marketing, more messaging. Which, yes, there is so much value in that. And also, I don't have an email list. I never have. Really? It sucked the life out of me. Yes.

    Lisa: What? No email list?

    Brea: Yes. I know. I know. It's a shocker, right? It's like a doctor whose kids never go to the doctor or whatever.

    Lisa: I see an email marketing fan, Lisa, over here. I'm like, what? No way.

    Brea: But here's the thing is I choose as a consumer don't love being on email lists. I don't like sitting behind my computer and doing it. And I also, because I have high communication and a lot of training around how to craft a message, I don't like paying people to do it because they're never going to nail my voice like I will. So, it's either I do it or nobody does it and I just choose to connect with people in other ways that feel better to me. So, that makes sense for me. It is possible to run a business without an email list. Yeah. There's a lot of value in having an email list and doing it well. But, you know, I also kind of stopped. I mean, I haven't done my Instagram in almost two years. I haven't posted anything. And that's a big like.

    Lisa: No, no in the marketing world and still it's possible, you know to like grow a business media Yeah, social is not my level English It's funny because I love email marketing because I love the automation of it and all of the evergreen part being evergreen Queen But I the same reaction I had like, oh no, no email. I'm the same on social media where I'm on social media and There are so many ways. I mean, that's the thing. So many ways to do it. Yeah. It's just like we understand this about strengths. There are so many ways to get a thing done and it's the same. There are so many marketing channels. You can run ads. You could write a book. You can run challenges. You can do cold calling. You can go to in-person conferences. You could run it on an email list. You could have a great blog. You could have affiliate sales. sell for you. You could be an affiliate for somebody else as your full business model. You could be on older things that other people are off of like Telegram or Snapchat. I mean like. Carrier pigeon anybody?

    Brea: You could.

    Lisa: You totally could. You could be a podcast guest. You could be a podcast host. There are Dozens of ways you could build a business and they don't all have to be social media. I love that. Think of all the possible channels and especially for those of you who are listening who are like, yeah, I have three clients, but I need 30 to have a solid book of business. How did you get those three? What is your easiest channel? What is your most effective channel? And a lot of times that's your answer where to drill into because you probably like it and people have responded well to it. And meanwhile, you're over here thinking, oh my gosh, I have to be on social media or whatever you're putting yourself under pressure for. But your answer is over there and your three clients that you already attracted and why they came to you so naturally.

    Brea: Right. Did they come to you from social media? No. Do they come from your email list that you don't have? No. Then why do you think you need those things? Where did they come from? What is working? Lean into that. Lean into that. That's something that I wish I would have done earlier in my business journey, but a lot of grace. I've learned as I've gone. It's fine. I wish I would have done more of that looking backward, even just once a year, but quarterly, kind of assessing where is my profit? Where's my revenue coming from? What is turning the biggest profit? Those are two questions I didn't ask myself until I was, I don't know, maybe three years into business. I had no idea where my clients were coming from. No idea, you know, and I was just, whatever was in front of me was what I was doing. And I, there was no strategy. It was all just reacting, which is in line with my talents. So it serves me in a way. And I have other talents that love to plan and could have, I mean, I have strategic number six. there was room to refine a little bit and build a little bit more intentionally. So look to your talents and look to what's in front of you.

    Lisa: Yes, you have data right in front of you. Just start playing with numbers. What do I need? How do I need to do this to get people in and how many does it need to be? And if you already are attracting people into your funnel in some way, all you have to do is back into how you've already gotten customers and your answers will be right there.

    Brea: That's right. Yep. And because you're the boss, like you can see the data in front of you and decide that you want to keep going in that direction. Or you can say, okay, that serves me to this point, but now I want to try something different. You know, you don't have to be scared about what you're going to find because the data is just information. It's just helping you make a decision. You know, I love one of your coaching questions is how can you add a zero? Yes. There's a great book out there called the 10x book. What's that called? How to how to 10x your business or something.

    Lisa: Oh, it's the same thing. Adding a zero is 10xing. I didn't know. I don't know that book.

    Brea: Oh, well, it's such a great question. How do you add a zero, right? It's also a good question for an upsell, downsell situation. You know, if you come in with, we'll just do a hundred bucks for easy math because my math does not math very well in my head. Let's say you're offering a coaching session for $100. You need an upsell and you need a downsell, right? So how can you add a zero or take away a zero to give them an easier step up or an easier step down if that signature offer or that standard is not working for them?

    Lisa: So many things we've learned along the way. Math dreaming is a thing. Obviously, I've told Brea about my Add a Zero challenge before. This started off, at the time, the biggest contract I had ever sold was $29,000. And I was like, $29,700. So what I have to add to sell a package for $297,000. So I went off and sold a package for $297,000. One single transaction. Come on! Yes! Yes, but I had to dream it up first, you to say like, what value would have to be added? And how can I say it to us with a straight face? And who would I have to say it to? And what conditions would have to be present for them to want to buy it? But then I've also done the thing where I'm like, what's a $300 product that would just be super easy, that would be really attainable for somebody who doesn't have a budget, that would be a nice add-on. So going lower ticket, higher ticket, play with the math, play with the numbers. I swear it's fun. It can be fun.

    Brea: It can be fun. Absolutely.

    Lisa: You're like, yeah, yeah, that sounds great.

    Brea: No, it can be. And I think this goes in the, I wish I would have done this sooner or known this sooner category. It's so easy for us to just get caught up in the moving forward. The momentum is here. We find ourselves working on this or saying yes to a project. And so then we just kind of keep moving in the direction that we're going. You'll never get to that $290,000 contract if you don't give yourself permission to shoot for it. If you don't give yourself the target, you're not going to get there. That's not going to fall in your lap. I mean, never say never, but that's never going to happen. So take some time every now and then to step out and allow yourself to see where you are in your business today and then dream about where you want to go, what could be. And if you're stuck in that place right now, you haven't started your business yet and you're just in the dreaming phase and you're thinking, gosh, wouldn't it be amazing if I could start this business and here are my aspirations. You got to take the first step. You know, you got to, you got to get into the business. So I think that's my biggest takeaway. If you're in the business, Try to take a step out every now and then. Or maybe you're outside of the business, you're thinking about a business, you need to take a step in. Wherever you are today, just give yourself some time to also step in or step out.

    Lisa: Yes, yes. And I will piggyback on that and say, closing thoughts here. Along the lines of what Brea was talking about, if you're not taking the time to dream and you don't have anyone else to dream with, it makes it more difficult to believe it's possible. So if I were to start over, I would do something like my tools for coaches membership, where you can spend a hundred bucks a month and you're in the presence of these other amazing coaches who have incredible businesses. They're living the dream already. And you can build your belief because you're like, Oh my gosh, they're already doing all those things that I thought I just imagined, but people are actually buying that they're doing it. And And it is such great motivation to both get inspired by them, build your belief from them, learn together. It's, it's really an incredible process. So if you have trouble believing, because you're not going to live into it until you believe it, if you have trouble with some of that belief, come join a group like my Tools for Coaches group. Just go to LeadThroughStrengths.com, click on Tools for Coaches. And we will help you because we will show you how we're living it out in all different ways.

    Brea: I love that. I was never short on the belief. I believed in things that I had no business believing. I had no business for reality. I was never short on belief, but I wish I would have asked for help if I had known then what I know now. This community of coaches is just incredibly generous, and we are so much better together than we are alone. I had every belief that I could do it, that I would do it, that it was going to work out, that the world needs what I can offer. I mean, that was never a question. But how to do it, I had no idea. I mean, I really just built the plane as I was flying and I could have asked for more help. I could have reached out and I didn't know that. So if you feel alone, you are not alone. And you have two people here who would love to Love to come alongside you and be your cheerleader, provide resources, connect you to other people, other resources. So please, if that's you, go ahead and reach out to Tools for Coaches with Lisa or just come to my website. We can get on a call and see how I might be able to help you or connect you with the resources that you're looking for. That would be awesome.

    Lisa: Go to BreaRoper.com. What if you want to coach? who will dream with you, who won't tell you your dream is stupid, who will help you build on what you already have and align your strengths to it. Brio would be so perfect for that.

    Brea: Thanks.

    Lisa: Now for the listeners, it would be so fun to hear other people's coaching origin stories, coaching backstory. How did you get started? So come over to LinkedIn and share yours.

    Brea: I love that. Well, as they say in the music business, that's a wrap. 

    Lisa: That's a wrap. 

    Brea: See ya.

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out team workshops and retreats at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the Get Coached link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 171 - Selling To Corporate Clients

Selling to corporate clients can be exciting, and sometimes daunting. And everyone wants to know…what’s the secret sauce? 

From the thrill of landing big contracts to the unexpected surprises that come with corporate red tape, we cover it all. You’ll hear about the challenges of finding the right decision-makers, the complexities of procurement processes, and the importance of pricing your services appropriately to account for those hidden costs.

We also discuss the potential rewards of working with corporate clients, like the opportunity for repeat business and the chance to make a significant impact on a large scale. Plus, we share tips on how to leverage your unique strengths and experiences to connect with corporate teams effectively. 

So, if you're considering stepping into the corporate arena or just want to learn more about what it takes, this episode is packed with valuable insights and a few laughs along the way!

🌟

    • The 5 “P”s of Selling to Corporate: Selling to corporate clients can be a different ballgame compared to smaller businesses. We discussed five specific challenges, including prospecting, people, processes, paperwork, and pricing. From finding the right person to talk to, to the often lengthy procurement processes that can feel overwhelming…it's crucial to be prepared for the red tape and to understand the internal dynamics of the organizations you're targeting. Knowing who has the decision-making power and how to navigate the paperwork can make all the difference in your success.

    • Financial Surprises: One of the biggest surprises for many new to the corporate world is the financial aspect. From insurance requirements to payment terms that can stretch out for 90 days or more, it's essential to factor these into your pricing strategy. We emphasized the importance of pricing your services in a way that accounts for these unexpected costs and delays, ensuring that you remain profitable while building strong relationships with your clients.

    • The Ripple Effect of Corporate Work: Despite the challenges, working with corporate clients offers incredible potential for impact. The ability to reach a large number of employees and make a difference in their work lives is a powerful motivator. We shared personal experiences of how corporate engagements can lead to repeat business and even opportunities for global travel, enriching both your professional and personal life.

    • Research Corporate Client Needs: Take the time to understand the specific needs and expectations of corporate clients in your industry. This includes familiarizing yourself with common processes, procurement requirements, and potential red tape.

    • Prepare for Financial Surprises: Account for unexpected costs such as insurance policies, software fees, and extended payment cycles when pricing your services. Ensure your pricing reflects these potential surprises to maintain profitability.

    • Identify Key Decision-Makers: Develop a strategy for finding and connecting with the right people within corporate organizations. Understand the hierarchy and decision-making processes to streamline your sales efforts.

    • Leverage Existing Networks: Utilize your current connections and past experiences to identify potential corporate clients. Attend networking events and engage with local businesses to expand your reach.

    • Stay Adaptable and Open-Minded: Be prepared for changes in corporate structures, such as turnover in key positions, which can affect ongoing contracts. Maintain flexibility in your approach and be ready to pivot as needed.

  • Lisa: I'm Lisa. 

    Brea: I'm Brea. 

    Lisa: And today's episode is all about selling to corporate clients. Whether we're talking about coaching, speaking, training, workshops, facilitation, all of those kind of services in a corporate marketplace. Brea, this one I'm like, oh, I'm totally comfortable. This is my jam. Corporate is my bag.

    Brea: And I'm just here with my paper and my pen ready to take notes and learn from the master, you know? This is so juicy. This is so good.

    Lisa: is like, that isn't the market I'm focused on. Okay. But I think you bring really great stuff because I know you do have corporate clients and I know we've talked about them over the years and it will do a lot for our listeners just to be able to hear from two perspectives, somebody who's absolutely focused on corporate and somebody who hasn't. And then what the experience is when we're in that process of talking to a prospective customer, what the surprises are, what the road bumps are. I think it's really important to have this conversation. For one point alone, if I could share some experiences where people can see the financial surprises. Like you get the gig and then they're like, oh, we need to see your insurance policy with the $3 million limits. Oh, we need you to pay $13 a month for your software to get paid because that's what happens with our procurement software. Oh, it's going to take 14 hours to get through the procurement paperwork. Those things aren't built into people's prices because they have no idea they're going to run into those on the other side. So that part of the surprise makes this whole conversation worth it.

    Brea: Yeah. In case people don't know, my background is not in corporate. It never has been until I started my own coaching and consulting business and wanted to start selling to corporate clients. But I personally don't have any background there. And so at first I was like, oh my gosh, corporate, you know, big starry eyes emoji because you're looking for what I'm selling. So it's just going to be so easy to sell. And then I was just like, I just don't love this process of trying to sell into corporate. And even I think delivering to corporate clients has been a very different experience versus delivering to a smaller business or a smaller nonprofit. So I'm excited to dive in.

    Lisa: Not just selling, even the delivery. Oh my gosh. Can we start on the positive? What gives the starry eyed emoji? I can't say the word emoji today. That's funny. What's exciting about it? Like, why do we even try if there is going to be a lot of red tape? Why go through the red tape?

    Brea: Yeah, well, for me, it seems like two things. Financial, right? They have budgets, their budgets are big, and they're looking for the services that we're offering. So it's not a heart of a cell, you know, theoretically, right. There's a credibility to put a corporate logo on my website as a client that I've served looks really good to other potential buyers. So. I think those are the two things that first attracted me.

    Lisa: Yeah, I'll agree with those. Those are amazing. And it's definitely proven true. You know, people go to leadthroughstrengths.com and they scroll to the bottom of the homepage and they're like, Ooh, look at all those logos. That is good for being able to sell people in the future. The financial part of it could be really cool. There have been a lot of customers over the years where they have big corporate academies and they'll offer a program on repeat inside of a corporate academy. And it is just business that comes back and comes back and comes back. So there may be a little more difficulty in getting in up front. And then once you're in, there can be some ease of repeat business that is really cool. There's an upside for me. I think this would be true for any of us. If you learn that you're working with a customer who has 100,000 employees and you think, how powerful the work is that we do and that you could reach that many people through your work. It feels amazingly efficient and beautiful to be able to have that ripple effect in the world. So it just feels great, the upside in all the ways.

    Brea: Yeah, so much potential, so much potential.

    Lisa: Mm-hmm. And then I think even personally, I've been able to travel to 15 different countries delivering our work. And that's very enriching personally as well. So getting to see the global experience, it makes you better at your craft because you're facilitating in all kinds of different environments and cultures. And also, what a gift to be able to travel for work like that. So that's been a fun benefit as well.

    Brea: Yes, I love all those things. I think also for those of us who are strengths coaches and use Gallup's CliftonStrengths assessment, I mean, it's designed for corporate teams. You know, like that's where it started. Obviously not the only place that it can be applied, but it's such a natural fit there. People need it, you know, because working in corporate, even though you get all these fancy trips around the world or, you know, whatever, like it's hard. We need a little a little spark and we need to approach our work differently. We deserve to enjoy our work, you know, and to show up and be able to do what we do best every day. People need what it is that we're offering. So it's a real opportunity for us to go in and, and make real impact, you know, and really help people live good, full lives.

    Lisa: Yeah, yeah. If we're selling to corporate clients, we're in there thinking from the corporate client perspective, hey, we can help you have employees who are fully engaged, who are reaching their highest potential, who are working in their efficiency zone. There are a lot of really good business reasons. So I think it's a great match. We know our services can be of value and how cool when you can touch the individual who also works there and make their human experience better.

    Brea: Yeah, yeah, love it.

    Lisa: So what are some of the surprises you've run into, Brea when you've been talking with a corporate client as a prospect, when you're in those early stages, what have you run into that's notable?

    Brea: Well, so many things. I mean, I've learned the hard way, you know, let me, let me be honest, but everything was a surprise to me, because I literally had no experience going into it. I think It was so surprising to me how hard it was because in my mind, I was like, Oh, this is such an easy match. You know, there, this will be easy. And it, it wasn't, it's so hard to find the right person to talk to. It's hard to get them on the phone, you know, or on the zoom or on the calendar there, their time is very, very full, you know? And so to get to the right person and then to get their time was surprisingly harder than I thought. I was surprised by, again, all the red tape, just, oh my gosh, my little activator. I was just like, this is taking too long. I can't. I love that about small businesses is I can talk to the owner. I can just walk in there a lot of times, you know, and talk to the owner and we can put something on the books for the next day, you know? I mean, it's a little bit of an exaggeration, but you know, like corporate does not work that way. Right. So I was surprised by how long the process was. from the very first prospecting call to the finished product. Oh, there's so many things that surprised me, but another big one is how it felt like, I don't know, how do I say it? From my perspective, it felt like they wanted a lot of my time and a lot of like free, like the interview process, you know, or as you kind of work through the chain, you, you end up talking to several different people, you know, as you're, continue to pursue the lead. And they want you to, you know, meet with a small team and do a, you know, a 30 minute webinar or whatever. And I'm like, what? Like, no, I charge for this. Don't you know? So things like that.

    Lisa: Yeah, you have to find out who else is involved in the decision and who has veto power on the budget and what budgets matter. One of the surprises I experienced, this is why I experienced it many times, is some corporate clients have these things called an accumulation period. So let's say you set your billing to be net 30. That means you send your invoice and it's due in 30 days. They will say, well, we do net 90. So we only pay every 90 days and we have a 90 day accumulation period. Yeah, like double surprise. 90 days and the accumulation period over which we're collecting all of the paperwork. So really, they're saying we pay you six months after the gig. And that for most individuals who are getting started in the early years is a long time to wait. And then people don't expect it. And they're like, oh, my gosh, are they Not paying me? Do I have to chase this? I've had some of the biggest names, Fortune 50 names in the world. One took over one year to pay. It wasn't because they weren't trying to pay. It was because one person who worked on just a regular old operations team out there, she didn't know how to navigate the internal procurement, how to get a PO, how to get it paid. She didn't know she needed a PO. She didn't know the paperwork. Because that's not what they do on a daily basis. This just started off as a team who wanted to do a team building. And by the time we figured it all out, it was a year into it. is so much. So I would put that out there. If you're early on and you think you want to work in corporate, make sure you are accounting for things like you're going to have to buy insurance policies and show them. And then once you've purchased your insurance policies and you've paid a couple thousand dollars, oh, then they're going to say, you need to add us as additional insured. And if you don't have this in your policy, that might be a couple hundred dollars to add that. Oh, then you have to pay to be in our software, to be able to get paid. Oh, you're going to fill out 14 hours worth of procurement paperwork. There might be a year long closing cycle or there might be a one day closing cycle. You don't know what you're going to get. So a lot of surprises come up like you close the deal and then they say, oh, by the way, are you going to show up with a PowerPoint? Are you going to use a deck? And if you say yes, then they say, oh, well, every deck in our organization has to conform to these brand standards. And they send you a 100 page document and a template and you're like, I don't even use PowerPoint. My deck's designed somewhere else. And why would you have a vendor put their stuff in your deck's format? And why wouldn't you just close it up front? Because that's going to take six hours. Those are the surprises you just have to be ready for and you have to have a price that you're satisfied enough with that when those surprises come up, you don't have to be like, well, if this, then I need to charge this much more. Instead of feeling like you're in a nickel and dime or an adversarial back and forth, because you want to keep this, you want to keep it. Feeling like, really exciting and fun. And so after you get through the paperwork phase, you want to be in a great relationship with them. So price it for the unexpected because in big corporate, you're going to have the unexpected.

    Brea: So here's what I'm hearing from you and what I'm feeling in my bones are the three P's. It's people finding the right person to talk to. It's paperwork. It's so much paperwork and processes, right? There are so many processes that you just have to kind of learn to navigate or just throw your hands up and just go with the ride, you know?

    Lisa: Yeah, and hey, I mean, I'll just add in another P because when you're talking about prospecting as another P, I think in general, if the topic of this show is selling to corporate clients, when people start a coaching, speaking, training kind of business, we get into it because we love the work. And then how many people, like what percentage do you think are like, Oh my gosh, I didn't know I needed to spend at least half my time being a salesperson or a marketing person. So that prospecting element, I'm going to just add an extra P in there for you that I think that's another surprise. What it takes to Find prospective customers. Where are they? How do I find them? What is my process going to be? For some, it's social media. For some, it's tapping into an existing past network or people that you've known in your career. For some, it's going to chamber events or other types of networking events and meeting people. Sometimes it's a local effort and they're trying to build business in a specific city. And you can have successful paths through all of those. But it definitely is something you have to be conscious of that it's a thing with corporate clients.

    Brea: Yeah. And maybe the fifth P is pricing. This is such a mystery still to me, even though I have worked successfully with corporate clients. It's how do you price it? Right. Especially if you've never done it before and it's your very first contract. So there we go. The five P's of selling to corporate.

    Lisa: I know. And we're all over the place, aren't we? I mean, and that's fine. That is a beauty of it. I have heard plenty of our peers say when they're starting out, they've delivered a speech for $700 and I have friends. I know because they're thinking one hour. They're thinking, Oh, that sounds like a lot for an hour. And sometimes you have to overcome that with a client because they also think of it as one hour. But we, I also have friends who are 20,000 plus for one speech.

    Brea: Yeah.

    Lisa: There's such a variety, such a variety. Yeah. And it's fine.

    Brea: And, and I think the mystery for me when it comes to corporate clients is, um, is you don't know what their budget is. Like, you know, that they have a price in mind. Right. And every company is different. Um, so how did, how to come in not too high that you lose the, you know, the opportunity, but not too low that you look like a total idiot. He's never done this before. Right. You gotta, you gotta come in where they're expecting you to come in. But how do you know? Because what one corporation may do isn't necessarily what, you know, another one will. So yeah, it's, I don't know. I don't have any answers. I'm just here. I'm just here taking notes and saying, if you feel like it's hard, it is. And I'm with you.

    Lisa: Well, and I also say you have to have some awareness of things like, okay, here are some things early on that I forgot would be important, but they weren't surprising, even though they surprised me. Do you know what I mean? Sometimes you're like, oh, of course, duh.

    Brea: But when I started selling it, yes, you just recognize it when it shows up, you know?

    Lisa: Yes. Like, for example, if you went to deliver a workshop to Apple, and you walked in with a Lenovo laptop, no. That's just a hard no. You would cannot do that. So there are times where I have, based on the operating system or even the chipset, let's say you're in big tech, Do they only have Intel? Like when I'm working with Samsung, well luckily when I worked with Samsung, they don't let you bring in any electronics. You can't get past the front door because you're supposed to leave it all in your car and go through a metal detector. So maybe that's a bad example. But you have to know those things and you have to know, can I buy Can I bring in a thing that has a component part that is representative of one of their customers and will that offend them in a way that it becomes a note? Another is if they're used to dealing with vendors in person, some companies will expect that you fly in for prospective conversations. It's not as much of an expectation these days. That was something that the era of COVID brought to us where almost everybody is now willing to have calls over camera. But others, they expect, hey, if we're having conversations, you're flying in on your dime to go have a conversation about the services. So if that's the case, you're likely going to want to be pitching a big program, not a one-time event, because if you didn't win it, your event can't be profitable with that kind of in-person conversation, unless they're local. So all these kind of things to navigate and know the expectations. And I'll say corporate, here's a fun surprise. Sometimes learning the departments that you really mesh with well, can be a great way to get in faster. And then you get in with one team and it expands from there. One manager team at a time, one bid at a time. So for example, I really work great with marketing and sales teams. We close fast. They make decisions really quickly when we're together. They're just like, yes, this is it. Boom. Let's go. Where do I sign? let's not do any more, you know, formalities. And that's been a thing. Is that the nature of those departments or is it that we matched so well? I don't know. But if I'm working with HR teams, usually the opportunities are bigger because it might be more like the centralized department that's covering development for 100,000 people. So maybe maybe because they follow the rules more because they're in HR might be the nature of the work. It might be because they are not as likely to pay on a credit card. They're going to go through their procurement process. And they also have the bigger upside because they might bring you on for 100 training classes in a year. So those are some of the things that I don't know how much you pre-plan for those. You just experience it and start to learn it. And then you figure out when X happens, things happen really fast and really nicely for me. Maybe those tell you you're in great alignment. So those are the kind of companies and departments that you work really great with. So that could be where you focus your attention so that you're not spending as much time feeling like you're running your head against the wall.

    Brea: Absolutely. Yes. It's also reminding me of another challenge that I've found and this is not just in corporate, but a lot of corporate turnover, you know, finally you start to make some inroads and then all of a sudden that person isn't there anymore because they got let go or because they restructured or because, you know, fill in the blank. So then you got to start all over again.

    Lisa: It's wild. You know, the biggest contract I sold was $297,000. I was so excited about it. It went swimmingly. It was like, oh, this is amazing. If I could re-land this every year, it would be so perfect. I mean, everything was going. Yeah. The gig was great. The people were great. The relationship was great. And in the 11th month of the 12-month rollout, they had a rework, and there was a new VP, there was a new director, there was a new manager, the program got deleted, and all the people turned over and just poof, gone. No opportunity for that to repeat. But if I had won that same contract five years before, that could have been part of my revenue for five years in a row. So you just you really don't know and you have to consider it. I think that's a great surprise to bring up is the eggs in the basket kind of concept. You could sit back on your laurels and say, oh, look, I have two big contracts. I'm just going to hang. And if you stopped marketing and stopped trying and stopped reaching out, you might really shoot yourself in the foot two years later when you had to start over.

    Brea: Oh, absolutely. Oh,

    Lisa: That's important.

    Brea: Yeah. So the starry eyed emoji is now I'm like, this is just hearing all of this and reliving, you know, my experiences that are resonating. It's like from starry eyed to just like full on streaming tears, you know, it's just like, I don't even know if corporate is worth my time or my energy. And, and I have found, you know, a nice home with, smaller businesses and even local small businesses. And when those corporate opportunities come along, it's awesome. I just did a one-on-one coaching session with a high school senior. The mom bought a coaching session for her daughter and for herself. So they both did built-in trainings. We did a debrief individually for each, but kind of at the same time, they were present to share that experience together. really sweet. Well, it turns out that mother is in the C-suite for a very big hospital chain. And boom, there you go. It's like, wow, I wasn't looking for this, right? But here's this person in front of me that I definitely need to talk to. And so when those things come up, I'll put in the work and the time to follow it and pursue it and be patient. But most often I'm not out there looking for those opportunities because it just doesn't doesn't fuel me. You know, I lose gas really fast.

    Lisa: Well, those sound just perfect. And plus you lead through connectedness. So being able to just be open to the fact that those are going to drop in sometimes and it's not what you're leading with and they'll drop in. And you know, like those are the best scenarios when someone says, oh, well, oh, I'm in charge of these seven locations. I want to bring it to each location. So let's do these seven different rollouts. And sometimes they'll just drop a giant project in front of you and you're like, And other times, here's one I think people run into when they're selling to corporate clients. They think, okay, I'm gonna sell to corporate clients. I have the most Align Amazing experience. I'm in their industry. Let's take one like, okay, I'm in hospitality and that's where I've spent my whole career and now I'm an executive coach and I specialize in executives and hospitality and I'm gonna come in and coach leaders in that industry. It seems so niche, so perfect. And then a leader, you connect with a leader there and they're like, this is amazing. I'm going to bring you in with all of my other senior VP peers. And they start bringing you in and they realize from corporate HR, oh wait, we have the International Coaching Alliance as an approved vendor. And they're the only people approved to deliver coaching. So if you want to be part of coaching, you have to go through them. So these things that get real convoluted sometimes come up where they're like, you have to get billed through there. So then you have to go, they reach out to this coaching alliance, and then you have to be a subcontractor to the coaching alliance, and it's this detached kind of thing, and oh, they're gonna take a cut, but you brought the business in, but the cut is there, and you have to price that in, but you have to go with their rates, because they already established their rates to become an approved vendor. So those surprises are definitely worth being ready for and maybe even asking those questions. I find it's way more common with coaching than anything else, but it also comes up with speaking. We'll have approved vendor bureaus. I've had to get paid through a speaking bureau that I had never interacted with before, but it's the only person they can get paid through. So you go through that bureau. The same happens with training services. Sometimes it's really interesting how their procurement departments have done this to be efficient and to lock in prices. Sometimes they've done reverse bidding. I call them reverse bidding wars, but they like send their specs out and they have all the vendors bid on it so that one they can only deal with one vendor and that one vendor wins the business and that one vendor likely came in with the lowest price. Not always, but they came in with all of the factors that needed to be in place to win that business. And they've centralized on that one vendor. And you have to then be a sub of that vendor. That's something I never even knew existed until I got into the corporate world. And sometimes that pops up as something to navigate.

    Brea: There's just so much. I mean, my brain is spinning from all the things that we could talk about. Yeah. Okay. So there are so many people who are listening and want to sell into corporate. So instead of being surprised by that, maybe do a little bit of research and go and try to be proactive and align yourself there. I know I've found certain certifications that corporate clients have partnered with. And so you could go get certified from that company and then they're the ones that give you all the clients. So not dealing with corporate directly, but finding corporate clients in a coaching certification.

    Lisa: Yes.

    Brea: I think something else I was surprised about was how, because learning and development and assessments and these types of workshops and coaching and training are so commonly offered in corporate, I thought it would be so easy because that's what they're looking for. But sometimes I was surprised that they, oh, well, we've already done strengths.

    Lisa: Right.

    Brea: We did it once five years ago as a team. Right. So we're done. So thank you so much, but we don't, you know, we don't need you. Or there's a challenge. Even if you win the bid, you go in and you deliver, you're walking into a room of a lot of people who have their minds made up about what they're going to experience with you based on other trainers that have come in for other assessments, right. Or other workshops that they've done in a similar vein. They just automatically lump you into. their past experiences, which might be good and might be bad. But that has surprised me and challenged me. I haven't seen that in smaller businesses that maybe don't have as many opportunities to offer these types of things to their people.

    Lisa: That is a great point. It's a both a pro and a con in corporate because they might be like, hey, look, during my corporate career, I've done it all. I've done Myers-Briggs. I've done DISC. I've done Hogan. I've done Berkman. I've done VIA. I've done CliftonStrengths. I've done The Fascination. I've done this. I've done The Insights. They will rattle them all off and they're like, It could be, we love all of those. It could be, Oh, gosh, here's another one. Which one are we going to do this quarter? And you don't know what the perspective of the team is going to be. But if they didn't have the greatest experience in the past, they might be in an eye roll view of it as a participant. On the other hand, when people are like, Hey, we have a brand new team, we should do something for a team builder when we get together for our quarterly meeting that's in person. Oh, have you ever done StrengthsFinder? Oh, yeah, I did that years ago. We should do StrengthsFinder. And they remember these, like for us, it's a really old terminology, but I get lots of people coming to me still saying, I want StrengthsFinder because they remember it, it's part of corporate, they've done it in corporate. So it brings a recognition to a product that we didn't even have to create. And it gives us a little bit of a leg up to be able to get in because they already know they want that thing.

    Brea: Yes, yes. So for better or worse, you know, kind of lays the groundwork for you. So to be aware, you know, that those preconceived notions are there and to prepare for that.

    Lisa: Yes, yes, yes. Well, I hope all of you listeners, I hope that you got something cool out of this that will help you mitigate some of those surprises and give you strategy to chew on. It's not like this was meant to be a roadmap, like here is how to sell to corporate clients, but More like, here are some pros and cons.

    Brea: Because that roadmap doesn't exist, by the way.

    Lisa: Yeah, if you made that roadmap exist, it could look six different ways. And yeah. All right, Brea well, if someone wants to work with you, whether it is one of those corporate clients listening in, or maybe one of the others who are like, oh, yes, she likes those medium businesses, and that is me. Tell them how to work with you.

    Brea: Well, you can just come on over to my website, BreaRoper.com, B-R-E-A-R-O-P-E-R.com. And I'd love to chat and learn more about what it is that you're looking for, what problem you're trying to solve, what it is that you hope to gain from working together and we'll customize a solution that fits for you.

    Lisa: Beautiful. And me, Lisa, at Lead Through Strengths, this has been our thing. Big corporate clients have been our focus, so it's totally our comfort zone. And also, I do a program called Tools for Coaches, and it's a $100 a month community where I give away all of my tools, templates, the documentation, and just give you a leg up so you save a lot of time on these kind of situations when you're in that community. And that's at LeadThroughStrengths.com over on the Tools for Coaches link.

    Brea: So good. So good. All right. Go on out there and get your business. Go get those corporate clients.

    Lisa: Yeah. If you want them. And if you do, go make a huge difference because they have a massive number of employees out there in the world who need what we do as coaches and speakers and trainers. And if this one lights you up and it's a customer set you want, let's get out there and have a big ripple effect.

    Brea: See y'all later. Bye.

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out team workshops and retreats at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the Get Coached link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 170 – Do You Want to Offer Group Coaching?

Thinking about offering a group coaching program? This episode is for you! We explore the many benefits it offers – for those being coached and also for coaches themselves. Things like opportunities for support and feedback, profitability and scalability, and developing deep, lasting friendships. We also share a few different program structures we’ve tried, and the impact we’ve seen. If you're curious about how group coaching can benefit your organization, or if you're a coach looking to expand your offerings, tune in to this episode!

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    • Affordability and Accessibility: For many individuals, one-on-one coaching can be a financial stretch.  Group coaching is often more budget-friendly than one-on-one sessions, making it an attractive option for those looking to access top-tier coaches without a hefty price tag. 

    • Networking and Peer Learning: Participants in group coaching can build meaningful connections with peers who share similar challenges, fostering a supportive community that extends beyond the coaching sessions. Group coaching allows individuals to learn, not only from the coach, but also from observing and engaging with others in the group, enhancing the overall learning experience.

    • Scalability for Coaches: Instead of being limited to one-on-one sessions, coaches can reach and impact more people simultaneously. This not only increases profitability but also allows coaches to create a ripple effect of positive change. Plus, the energy and interaction in group settings can be incredibly motivating for both coaches and participants, making the experience more enjoyable and fulfilling.

    • Flexibility in Structure: Group coaching can take many forms, from small cohorts to larger sessions, and can be tailored in duration, allowing coaches to experiment with different formats to find what works best for their audience. Experiment to find what works best for you!

  • Lisa: I'm Lisa. 

    Brea: I'm Brea. 

    Lisa: And today's topic is all about group coaching. So do you want to try group coaching?

    Brea: Yes. You should. You know, not that I'm going to should on everybody, but really you should. There are so many benefits of trying group coaching. But if you've ever asked yourself that question, group coaching, should I do that? This is the episode for you.

    Lisa: Yes, it is. Yes, it is. I was thinking we could talk about the two angles. Of course, anytime you have a product or a service, so we're even talking to you internal coaches who are coaching for an organization as an employee. Well, you might have a lot of reasons you want to incorporate group coaching into your internal practice. Certainly, if you're an independent coach, you might want to introduce this into your product offerings. And as always, we want to think about the person we're being of service to, right? Some people call them coachee. I will often call them the person being coached because people look at me weird if I say coachee. It is such a weird word. It's such a weird word. It is. It is. So anyway, we want to think of that person Let's, let's take that angle first. Cause of course it can benefit. You can benefit your organization, but let's talk about the person receiving the coaching first and why group coaching could be great to consider from that person's point of view. What say you, Brea?

    Brea: Oh my gosh. Well, one of the main reasons that I hear people are attracted to group coaching when they're considering one-on-one versus group coaching, it's price, you know, group coaching is usually cheaper, so it makes it just a little bit more affordable. And it's a great way for them to get to know the coach and receive some coaching, you know, receive the value of it for not a big spend. It's just kind of a smaller step before they're ready to commit to one-on-one coaching.

    Lisa: I had not even thought of price. And could you imagine like some people want access to a specific coach and they just cannot get that in their budget at this time, but they could get access to that person with a more intimate kind of relationship if they did group coaching. Smart.

    Brea: I've got a whole list, but I'm sure you do too. Lisa, what else do you think of? All right, we'll ping pong back and forth.

    Lisa: I think my favorite benefit to the coachee is the network. Because let's say you're doing a group program and you're like, I'm going into this program on how to get rid of my imposter syndrome as a new senior leader. Well, you are now in a room with 10 or 15 other senior leaders who are also currently experiencing imposter syndrome. I mean, the ability to network and really grow your relationships with people who are like you, who understand you. It's so cool. And because you're learning from peers who you respect, when they're learning, and the coach, let's say the coach is doing like a focus on that person, whether it's a hot seat or whatever you call it, depending on what kind of program you have. But If they're focusing in and doing a coaching spotlight with that one person, and that one person is not you, you still benefit so immensely because you're watching someone who has the same issue or challenge you have. You're watching the coach and you can't help it. You're coaching them in your mind. You're like, Oh, this is what I would think of that. Oh, this is how I'd approach that. And you're learning about yourself while you're doing it. It's an incredible way to learn and meet people. I just love that richness. I think that's amazing. That might've been like, two different things in one, both the networking and how you learn from peers. But gosh, that is a really big deal.

    Brea: Yes, I agree. Peer feedback is, if not number one, it's, you know, it's tied with my number one, I think. So I'm glad that you brought that up. The other part of the networking piece is the network just really like commits to supporting each other, not just in the session, but also outside of. And what I mean is like on LinkedIn, whenever I post something, I'm going to tag the people that are in my group that were in that coaching session. We were just talking about, you know, being bold and putting something out on LinkedIn. So we tag those people and everybody likes and comments and boost the algorithm and just shows that support. So the network is, is more than just building friendships. It's actually committing to, to support each other in their business. Um, which I think is so cool. Oh yeah.

    Lisa: I mean, you made me think of two things there. One is, if you paid $1,000 to be in a group program, and that group program is six weeks long, but you made really tight relationships and friendships during that time, now that learning and peer network carries forward for years to come. So you pay for this quick thing, and then it lasts in a way that one-on-one coaching can't without continuing to pay.

    Brea: That is super cool. That's the power of of spending time with each other. You show up to a group coaching program and you're vulnerable, you're open, you're hungry, you're learning, and you're all in it together. So it really can form some great friendships.

    Lisa: I think that's why it's so cool that it goes beyond the person. Because you buy a group coaching program or you buy into a group coaching program or membership or course, however the structure, because it could be literal coaching, it could be a course, it could be a membership, lots of different structures to group coaching, but you buy it based on that person selling it and you're sold on that person. And what is so cool to me is how often you get into this group coaching and you're satisfied with the purchase based on that person and how they run their program. And then all those extra people are like bonuses. It's incredible what relationships form from group coaching.

    Brea: It's amazing. Yeah. You know, another great thing about being in a group coaching cohort is the added availability. I don't know about you, but my brain is always coming up with questions and it's usually not in the moment. You know, it's like after I've stepped out of it that I'm like, oh shoot, we should have talked about this or I should have talked about that. And it's like, you know, you can do that with a group coaching program. You've got all these other people in the cohort that you can reach out to outside of the sessions. You're not just limited to the one hour you've paid for with the one person. You have more time to practice what you're learning and just ask questions without that added burden of being limited to time Yeah. Oh, what a good one.

    Lisa: This makes me just want to go sign up for more group programs right now.

    Brea: I know. I love it. I mean, you and I both, Lisa, we're social beings, you know, very social. So the people part of it is super, super attractive. But these other practical elements, I think, are really great for you as a coach, for the listeners, to remember this is a great thing to consider. So maybe we should talk about that. Why might a coach want to consider it for themselves?

    Lisa: Before we go to coach, I just feel like, I think this is a thing. My sister is super introverted and loves to tell me that the whole world is not extroverted like me. I'm like, just to put a little closure on this, I want to say for those of you who are not mega social beings like Brea and like me, don't think this is just an extrovert's game. It is a really incredible what you can get just watching what happens in a mastermind hot seat coaching or in a demo where someone's in front of the room. You don't have to be social to watch someone else. You could just sit there in your own solitary world and just watch and soak in and have your mind exploding with nuances that you learned that you never even signed up to learn. Little things that you change about how you move forward. It's incredible. So it is beneficial for all.

    Brea: Yes, introverts, welcome!

    Lisa: OK, OK, now let's move. You said, let's go to the coach side. How are these programs of service to the coach who's offering the program? Yeah.

    Brea: Well, Price, I guess I'll just start with the same thing, right? It can be very lucrative for you as a coach to build a group coaching model. because you're able to serve more people and profit from more people at once, right? So you're getting more bang for your buck as far as the time goes. Does that make sense? Yes.

    Lisa: Oh yeah.

    Brea: Heck yeah.

    Lisa: Yeah. You know, I like profitability. I also think it's been really cool where you can serve so many more people, have such a big ripple effect by being out there in service of others, where one-on-ones, you'll just blow past your capacity eventually. We go through waves sometimes where we're in a really high demand time. And we feel bad when we can't serve people who are like, please take my money. I love your service. Please come into my organization and do this thing, or please coach me. And you cannot, because you are just blowing way over your own capacity. So a group program also keeps that from happening.

    Brea: Yep, that's right. I mean, the potential for impact is so much greater. When you've got more people in the room, you're doing more. You're doing more for the same amount of energy, the same amount of effort. So love a good group coaching program. Yeah. And if you're like me, I come out of group sessions and I am on fire, you know, I don't want them to end. And, um, all the interaction with everyone, the, the group versus the one-on-one is really where I'm at my best, you know? Um, and so it's, it's good for me because of my talents. So that's something to consider too. if a group sounds fun, then that's a reason to do it because it's fun. Yes. Yes.

    Lisa: Cause if it's fun, you're going to serve better. Yes. I'm going to say this is tagging onto your first one and specifically probably make it mean something a little different for me is this idea of building a more scalable practice, whether you're an independent coach or an internal coach. I have had so many times during my coaching life where I get myself so busy that I have literal 12 hours blocked on my calendar where I know exactly what I am supposed to be doing for every minute. Get in that 12 hour block. I'm running through my house like a tornado. It is a ridiculous sight to see. And then I think, as far as being scalable, think about how many times you get asked the same question over and over again. And if you could offer that one time, you can create one video, send it out to the entire group, have a discussion around it, and it can live on forever. It gives you so much scale. So I would just say as a person who has always tended toward going back to overbooking myself and creating overwhelm, the beauty of a group program to give you space to really allow yourself to relax into it and show up as that best version of you instead of that frantic swirling around version.

    Brea: Oh my gosh. Nobody wants to live in the middle of a tornado. That is not, not the life that I'm looking for. Wow. Well, you kind of stole, it wasn't exactly what I was going to say, but along the same lines. So I don't want to, you know, like go over that again. Um, I feel like we've got, it's a good list. It's a good list. We covered a lot in a little bit of time.

    Lisa: Oh, you know, okay. I have one final one. Yeah. And you made me think of this while you were talking about the benefit to the person getting coached, the friendships, the vibes, the just like feeling amazing when you're of service to someone and you have that relationship and it's just giving in all the directions. It does work in both ways. It serves the person getting coached, and it serves the person coaching, and it feels so enriching. It's an incredible way to live. I mean, being coaches, internal or independent coach, if we crafted a life where it feels like you're hanging out with your friends for a living, oh my gosh, it's so darn cool. And I could not be more grateful for that. I think that is… It's the unexpected. It's not like I thought you would, you know, you don't think your people you serve are going to be enemies or something, but the level of friendships and love toward the people that you serve, it is an incredible thing that it does for your life. And I think it's been one of the bigger surprises in how deep those go.

    Brea: Yeah, I totally agree and have benefited in the exact same way. I know that if I was, ever in any of their towns, I could call them up and say, Hey, I'm in town and I haven't talked to you in five years. How you doing? You know, that's incredible. It's incredible. Yeah. You know, a couple other things are coming to mind as far as what group coaching could look like, right? Um, it could be a small group. Like I think many of us would think, you know, eight to 10 is usually like a really great size. 20 to 30 could be even bigger, right? Actually, the time that I spent serving SOAR, one cohort had almost a hundred people in it. And we showed up twice a week together live. And then I did a one-on-one session with everyone. So it was a lot. Okay. A lot. That is making me tired.

    Lisa: It was a lot. You're talking big group. I think what you just brought up is also so important, because a lot of people who are internal coaches, they're like, yeah, I'm responsible for all leadership development for my company. And that happens to be 12,000 people. So how big can a group be without just being considered a big old webinar, a big old course? And there are plenty of programs that do 100 people level cohorts. I probably you're not going to have the stamina that Brea had to do that many one on ones. But even if you met up, even if you took out the one on ones and just said, it's a group program, it's for 100 people, it's two times a week live, that is a lot of touchpoint action for that group.

    Brea: You know, I also, I've hosted what's what I call weekly office hours, which is kind of a group coaching variation, where you know, it's advertised that I'm going to be on the zoom on this day, you know, for this hour or for this time and anybody can pop in. And sometimes that ends up being a one-on-one coaching session, you know, for the lucky winner who, you know, was there by themselves. Sometimes it's a lot of people in a room, you know, or a small amount of people in a room, but there is that group coaching element. And I think that can be beneficial to you as a coach to just, again, um, provide an opportunity for people who want to work with you. You don't have time for a one-on-one contract, you know, for an extended amount of time, but you can say, Hey, come to this. I'm committed one hour a week, you know, to be here or one hour a month even, or whatever you want it to be. But to just leave that open ended for anyone who you meet networking or who reaches out to you on LinkedIn or anyone that, that wants to work with you, boom, there it is. You've got it already in your calendar. So. they can, they can come.

    Lisa: Amazing. Yeah. There are so many structures. I guess you have the kind of the numbers broken down. You can do a structure that is more like the traditional mastermind where it is the hot seat where that one lucky person gets coached. It can be open Q and a, it can be, um, even in my tools for coaches, we have an open, We call it tea time. It's really just coach connection slash Q&A. It's the spot where all the people who do coaching, speaking, training, and our friends and families and outside of our lives at work, they're like, what do you do again? And no one really understands what it is you do. Now you're in a room full of all the people who understand and you can ask one question and you'll get 20 ideas. I was just talking with a friend the other day and we were musing about how Isn't it cool that we can show up in that room and we're all what outsiders would think of as competitors, but we show up in the room together and we share the insides of our business, our resources, our ideas, our tools, and it just creates an environment that is so unique. So that's another version where it's a group program and you get so much more out of it than you would out of a one-on-one. Yes. I think I would close out with a thought on time. The duration is a big question because how long should I make my group program? So from the coach perspective, should I make this a six week thing? You talked about a 14 week bootcamp. I have corporate clients who do two year leadership accelerators. So the answer to that time thing is really, it can be as long or short as you want, but I love that for creativity and for a coach who's creating a program, Why not do a six-week, 10-week, 12-week, shorter kind of thing and see what you think of it? Because it's such a great place to experiment. You get a lot of feedback. If you have 15 people who go through a six-week program, you can finish the program, and then you can tweak it for the next one. And by the time you're a few in, you have really made a huge difference in the way that you show up for your clients compared with what it would be like if you took all of those people through a one-on-one program.

    Brea: And that's another, you're, you're teasing another benefit for the coach. You, it's very easy to use a group coaching program, especially if it's a shorter time commitment as a lead generator for one-on-one coaching, right? So people get a taste of working with you. They get excited, they're invested, they're seeing results. You can easily see results after six weeks and they've had a great time. And it's a shorter runway to a more profitable sale, right? or a higher ticket item that you may have.

    Lisa: You could create multiple group programs. You can take your broad topic and now you funnel into group programs that people are eligible for that go into a different skill set or focus area.

    Brea: And I know I keep kind of setting it up where it sounds like it has to be group coaching or one-on-one, but the most successful group coaching programs that I've been a part of have a one-on-one element as well, right? We meet as a group and you have the opportunity or even the option to have one-on-one coaching, which is just so great because you get all the benefits of all the things, the personal attention and the peer feedback and the relationships and all of that. So it doesn't have to be either or.

    Lisa: Well, I'm leaving this episode feeling like I'm going to go join more and deliver more, it's just beneficial on both sides. And I get really hyped about them. And I just, if you're a Tools for Coaches member listening in, I adore you. You are so incredible, and thanks for being part of enriching my life.

    Brea: That's so wonderful. I'm sure they feel the same, Lisa. I'll speak for them. I'm sure they feel the same. I'm doing the heart thing with my hands, you know. Well, I agree. I think, I think the tornado has has gone and I'm just seeing clear blue skies, you know? Peace. That's right. That's right. Cool. Yeah. Good. All right, BreaRoper.com, LeadThroughStrengths.com. Anything else you want to remind people about?

    Lisa: No, I think it's good. See you around.

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out team workshops and retreats at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the Get Coached link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 169 – Building Your Coaching Business with BP10

Ever wish you knew what all the best business builders had in common? What talents contributed to their success? Well, that’s exactly what the BP10 is all about! If you want to build a successful coaching business, you need to tune in! 

We kick things off by explaining what BP10 stands for (Builder Profile 10) and how it identifies the top talents that successful business builders possess. We also share about our own top talents and how they influence our approaches to business, especially when it comes to building relationships and profitability. Spoiler alert: we have different strengths, but that’s what makes our conversation so rich! We also discuss the importance of surrounding yourself with the right people—your personal "board of directors"—to fill in the gaps where you might not excel. 

Whether you're contemplating starting your own business or looking to enhance your existing one, this episode is packed with tips and encouragement to help you leverage your unique strengths for success. So grab a cup of coffee, settle in, and let’s get building!

🌟

    • Actionable Insights from the BP10 Framework: The various worksheets and tools provided in the "Born to Build" book, which accompany the BP10 assessment. These resources encourage self-reflection and help you articulate your purpose, dreams, and plans for the future. Brea mentioned the purpose journal as a particularly impactful tool for self-awareness. If you're considering starting your own business or transitioning from a corporate job, I highly recommend diving into these resources. They can provide clarity and direction as you embark on your entrepreneurial journey.

    • There are talents specific to building a business: The BP10 assessment identifies the top talents necessary for building a successful business. It emphasizes that no one person possesses all ten talents, highlighting the importance of collaboration and filling gaps with the right people.

    • The assessment is just the beginning: The assessment unlocks additional resources, including worksheets and activities, that promote self-reflection and strategic planning. Taking action with these tools can lead to greater insights and business success.

    • The BP10 Talents and CliftonStrengths work well together: Both assessments can provide a deeper awareness of personal strengths and areas for growth in business.

    • Take the Assessment: If you purchase a physical copy of the book, Born To Build, it includes a code to take the assessment. If you prefer to go paperless, you can purchase an assessment code here.

    • Read "Born to Build": Purchase and read the book "Born to Build" by Gallup. 

    • Complete the worksheets and activities included with the assessment to gain a deeper understanding of your business-building capabilities.

    • Compare your BP10 with your CliftonStrengths: Take the time to reflect on how your BP10 talents align with your CliftonStrengths. This can help you understand how to leverage your unique combination of strengths for greater success in building your coaching practice.

    • Join a Group Coaching program: If you don’t want to go through the BP10 resources alone, consider joining my BP10 Coaching Cohort. This can provide support and accountability as you explore your talents.

  • Lisa: Hi, I'm Lisa.

    Brea: I'm Brea. 

    Lisa: And today's topic is the BP10 for building a coaching business or building any business for that matter. What in the world is a BP10, Brea? 

    Brea: It's another assessment that Gallup puts out. I know everybody's like, what? Gallup does something other than CliftonStrengths? So it stands for Builder Profile and 10 is the number 10. What Gallup has done is they looked at people who highly successful builders as far as entrepreneurial and building businesses. They've identified what talents have gotten them there and made a list of 10 that you need to build a successful business.

    Lisa: Tell us about your top. I mean, you could even just be your first, your number one, but it could be anywhere up there in your top talents. What resonated with you the most when you read your top?

    Brea: Yeah. So my number one is relationship, which is so true. For better or for worse, this is how I approach everything. If I'm cold calling or I'm reaching out to a company that I've never reached out to before, my first instinct always is to go to LinkedIn and see, do I know anyone that works there now or that has worked there or that might have a connection there? That's always my first instinct, which may or may not be helpful, you know, but that relationship is always always leading me.

    Lisa: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I could totally see that. And that would be comfortable for you and fun for you. And it would feel like a way to build a business that doesn't feel like the slog.

    Brea: Yeah, totally. I would much, much, much rather build my business with people. Independent is my number 10, yeah. I just, I don't love doing it alone. I love doing it with people. I love doing it for people. From creating my offerings, it comes back to that relationship. What does the customer in front of me need? That's what I'll create an offer for. What are the relationships that I have? Who are the people in my network? What do they need? Or where are they? Then I show up at those networking events. Relationship leads everything.

    Lisa: Mm-hmm. This is fun because my independence is also, it's my ninth out of 10 and relationships high. It's in the top four for me as well. And mine has a little different angle and I totally can map it to my strengths. So my number one is profitability. I know you're so surprised.

    Brea: Okay, no surprise there. I love that. I love that. You know, I love that. That's low for me. So having relationships, people in my circle who bring that is such a gift. And that one is… Oh, go ahead.

    Lisa: Well, I think that one was interesting to read. When you think of it like a talent, right? It's almost as if it doesn't get experienced much in the business. It does, but it happens so fast. And I think this would reflect my strategic talent from CliftonStrengths. it's such a vetting tool for me. If we're talking in the context of business, not in my hobbies or my giving strategies or something like that, if it's literally in the context of my business, then if it's not profitable, then I just throw it out immediately. Because if it's not profitable and doesn't seem to have the chance to be. I have 10 other things that I could do that I enjoy that would be profitable. So go for those. And it's just like you in, you out. And then, and then I don't think about it a lot. So it's not one of those that I think lives in my head all day, every day is how I feel. It's just like an early filter and then out.

    Brea: Yes. And for me, because even though we both share a relationship in our top, profitability is so low for me that even if it is profitable, If it's not relational, I immediately throw it out, right? Because the profitability is so low that it just doesn't motivate me. So for instance, I understand from a business standpoint, I understand the value of having an evergreen something something. you know, something passive income, you know, something that generates income while you sleep. You know, I, I get how cool that would be to just wake up and have mailbox money as they call it down in Nashville. Like, but there's no relationship. There's no, like, it really just doesn't, fuel me at all. I would much rather create offerings that are profitable that allow me to connect with the client instead of just selling them a digital something and never talking to them.

    Lisa: Right. And mine, I will think of things like, okay, does this idea, before I know whether it's profitable or not, does this idea seem like it will be good for profitability? Okay, if yes, you're in, you get the shot at it. And then because relationship is high in my list, then for me, it's like, okay, now, because I do love people and I like being around people, Then, okay, do I already know someone who I could ask questions of? Or do I already have customers who I know and love and the feeling is mutual and I could put in a phone call and we could have a chat about it and they could help me? That the idea I also see in the BP10 report is a watch out. It says ensure your networking activities don't detract from accomplishing other tasks. And that has totally been true in my lifetime. I can get so deep into like having the fun social part of business because it's so fun. Then is the time suck so high that it's getting out of balance for me? It is something I have to watch, especially living out in remote areas. If I'm going to do the in-person relationship thing, it's going to take a day of dedication. So is that day Sometimes I'll have to say, this is a relationship day. I'm doing it on purpose to feed my relationships. But if I'm doing it for business, I would throw it out because it wouldn't be worth the hours. So sometimes I even make those delineations. just to feel like, okay, no, I'm actually doing this because this is a real human friendship sort of thing that I want, but it is a business meeting. This wouldn't be worth eight hours of time of our friendship. I'm going to go into town. I'm going to combine it with other trips. I'm going to do these other things. So it is interesting how it comes into how I spend my time, how often I do it, what it's about, but I'll definitely think of relationship as a way to build business first, just because if you could build it 15 different ways and the relationship way is really fun, then why not go for one? If it can be profitable and fun and have a meaningful relationship all in one, I'm in.

    Brea: Yes. Why not? I'm in. That sounds great. You know, I, This is gonna sound bold because it is. I really, really love BP10. I love CliftonStrengths more. Okay, let's be honest. And I love how the two of them work together. It's very, very easy to see how your CliftonStrengths are really bringing the nuance to these builder talents. But I will say that BP10 is the single most valuable thing that I've done for my business, I think. Like the $20 for the code and the time that I put into the worksheets, the activities that the book kind of takes you through, like those resources that Gallup provides, If I did not do that for my business the first year that I was in business, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't still be in business today.

    Lisa: Bold statement.

    Brea: It is bold, but here's why I say it is because my profitability is so low. If I had not had an assessment Show me that in just plain black and white. You know, like here it is almost all the way down at the bottom, you know. And independence being number 10. You cannot do this on your own. You don't want to do this on your own. You will not do this on your own. And if you're going to really make a business, you've got to make money, you know. So you can't just live in la la land of like, oh, I'll just spend all my time building these relationships and going to these networking things like what you just said. and hope that the dollars fall out of the sky. So even though, you laugh because you can't imagine a world, but believe me, I've lived in that world. So I think it's so powerful to see it on paper, just like it's so powerful for us to see our own CliftonStrengths, our own talents on paper and be like, okay, yeah, these are my talents, these aren't my talents. But that's the thing about BP10 that's very different than CliftonStrengths is in order to be a successful builder, according to the research that Gallup has done, you have to have all 10 of these things present in your business. And what they've understood through research is no one person has all 10 of these talents. So it's different than CliftonStrengths, right? Because we say you don't need all 34. You know, all 34 are good, but it's OK if you, you know, if you don't have all 34 as your top. But this is saying you need all 10 of these. So for me to see what I needed to be successful, what I didn't have, that if I wanted to be successful, I needed to find these things or these people. I needed to fill these gaps. It was just such a a clear, simple way to figure out where do I start building this business.

    Lisa: Now you alluded to activities that the book takes you through or the tool would take you through. Tell the listeners about a couple of the things you remember doing and what insights you got from them.

    Brea: Yeah, so there are eight different worksheets, Gallup calls them tools, that you do as you kind of move through the book. So the book is called Born to Build. The tools, they're just very foundational. There's a purpose journal where it's really a self-awareness exercise, helping you figure out what's your why, what's your purpose, what experiences have you had. You get to dream a little bit about your plans for the future. I love the purpose journal because it was just reflection and dreaming and all the things that I do well, right? There's a self-schema tool that was really powerful for me that helped me kind of dig into the themes themselves. Honestly, all of them were helpful. Overall, just having that framework and that structure for me was super, super helpful.

    Lisa: So if somebody is listening to this and they are in a corporate job, thinking about leaving, going out on their own, what would you tell them to do with Born to Build, the book?

    Brea: Yeah. So if you want to do it on your own, um, go buy the book. The book has a code, very typical Gallup, right? They include the code in the back. So the book is like, I don't know, between 20 and 25 bucks, depending on the day on Amazon, read the book through and download the worksheets online and just go through, go through the book and do the worksheets as you, as you go through. And if you don't want to do it on your own, then come and do it with me in a small group that I lead.

    Lisa: Mm-hmm. Tell us more about that.

    Brea: Well, it's just doing it together. So 8 to 10 people, it's 8 to 10 weeks. And we kind of go through chapter by chapter and just slowly work our way through all the different resources.

    Lisa: Mm-hmm. Sounds like a great way to do, okay, one of the worksheets or one of the kind of concepts they have is the concept of a board of directors.

    Brea: Yes.

    Lisa: When I read it at first, I was like, come on. If you're talking about a solopreneur or somebody who has five contractors on their team, they're not going to have a board of directors in the typical sense.

    Brea: Yeah.

    Lisa: And at the same time, I was just poo-pooing the language, but it does give you a sense for what, you know, do you have a personal board of directors? What would this be like? And it covers what you were describing. Like if you don't have these 10, all really high, then who else do you have in your life whose opinion you respect, but thinks totally different from you, who you could make part of this process, and it's, I thought that was pretty cool after I pooh-poohed it initially. That's so funny.

    Brea: Yes, yes, but point is, for you to find the people, you know, to fill in the gaps, so board of directors is huge. And they talk about like, yeah, do you have a coach? Do you have a mentor? Do you have a role model? Do you have an expert? Accountability partner, I think, is one of them. So there are specific people that you need on your board to fill specific roles, which from my experience in nonprofit world, I have seen, unfortunately, a lot of nonprofits pull together a board of directors that are just like their friends. And so I loved Gallup's board of directors because it was very specific about the perspectives that you need to surround you to make sure that you're covering all your bases. So cool. How do you feel like your CliftonStrengths, maybe think of your top five or so, how can you see those influencing your BP10 talents?

    Lisa: Oh yeah, well I think positivity, individualization, they're probably the two that are just so glaring as they tie to relationship. I think for profitability, my strategic mixed with my focus, mixed with my maximizer, they're the vetting factor. They're the ones who say this fits. It's kind of like I'm just, I'm very visual and I see this Venn diagram that only has two circles instead of three and one side, says, here's a service I know how to provide and love providing it. And the other side says, the market wants it and needs it. And where they overlap, boom, it's going to be profitable and it's going to be a great match. And so I think those talents line up with that. And then there are things in there with disruptor that's also in my top. And building and testing a minimally viable product, launching to early adopters, iterating, that is so maximizer. And so individualization, like let's figure out what is unique, what's a unique differentiator, what's something different that the market might have an appetite for, but it hasn't been available readily. So, that you get the novel part of things and then also be open and willing to iterate.

    Brea: Yeah, that's so cool. I remember first taking the assessment and selling was number five for me, which is just right smack dab in the middle. It's not high, it's not low, it's just right there, but the BP10 uses your top four, so it was not part of that top four. I could sell ketchup to someone in white gloves. I could sell ice to an Eskimo. I have been selling my entire life. I was a missionary for four years and I had to fundraise all of my income. I can sell. Why is this number five? I think it's not that you can't do something. Again, it's not as much about the outcome, similar to CliftonStrengths. It's about that vetting, that prioritization that you're describing. Selling is not my first instinct relationship for me. will always come first. And then I figure out how do I sell it. So it's interesting to look at your BP10s and your CliftonStrengths side by side, you know, and figure out what those connections are.

    Lisa: Well, I also see, this makes total sense to me when you're describing it, my experience of you, because yes, I know those things about you and I believe you're very persuasive And in the selling one, it talks about communicating clearly and communication is in your top. I mean, all those things. And I think about things like with your connectedness, you're going to be focused on whether something's a good fit for someone. You're not going to push it if it's not, if it doesn't feel meant to be, you're not going to be the one. who would push on that. And you would be great at rallying support for your ideas, but you're not going to disingenuously rally support for your ideas. If it didn't feel moral or aligned with Brea values, you wouldn't push it. Whereas maybe somebody who's selling is number one, maybe it would be like, I just sell is number one. And it happens before thinking of the relationship, whereas your relationship comes first.

    Brea: That's right. Yes. Thank you for seeing that in me.

    Lisa: Well, definitely, if you're listening to this and your interest is piqued and you're hearing these words and you have your own business or you're about to start one, check out brearoper.com so that you can see what she has to offer in this way. And I also want to throw out begintoflourish.com. One of our, well, two of our fellow strengths coaches, Jeff and Heidi Liskom, married couple, married coach couple, how should we say that? A couple who focuses on BP10. They specialize in this tool. They have an online class in this tool. So their site began to flourish, would be a cool place to look as well.

    Brea: You know, I just want to clarify my bold statement from earlier. The assessment itself, not the most valuable thing that I've done for my business. The assessment plus the worksheets, plus the activities, that was the most valuable. The assessment itself, there's not nearly as much science behind it as CliftonStrengths. The report itself, it's very, very simple compared to the complexity that CliftonStrengths brings us. Just want you to know, if you go and buy the code and take the assessment and you're like, what is this? Just know that there's so much more there. So please do at least get the book and go through it on your own, or at least go through the module, you know, in Gallup Access. Um, reach out to the Lipscombs, reach out to me, reach out to someone to help you, um, really get the, the fullness of what BB10 can offer.

    Lisa: Well, I can second what Brea just said, because that is exactly what I did when I first took it. the opposite of what you did. And I was like, yep, okay. That pretty much sounds like, just like people do with CliftonStrengths occasionally. They'll take it and they'll be like, yeah, that kind of sounds like me. Pretty cool. Okay. And then you close the book and then you forget that it's there and you don't do anything else with it and you don't get a ton out of it. You just kind of get the, yep, reinforcement. That sounds about like me. And that's the difference in you getting something that is so rich that you said it's the single best thing you've done for your business. And meanwhile, when Brea brought it up, I was like, I need to retake that and I can't really remember what mine were and I think it was all right but it didn't resonate with me so deeply like it did with you. So those two differences came in. She took action and really dug into it and I did not.

    Brea: And, you know, if you are a successful business owner already, this may or may not be as valuable to you as it was to me starting my own business for the first time, going out by myself. You know, it hit me at the right place at the right time. It was really valuable for me. at least check it out and just know that there's so much richness in looking at your CliftonStrengths next to your BP10 talents and just adding to that awareness, that depth of awareness of who you are, what you bring and what you need so that you can go out there and just crush it and build an amazing coaching practice that is honoring the best of who you are and letting you thrive.

    Lisa: Yes, I will absolutely second that as my closing thought too. If you are considering using BP10 to build your coaching practice, it's another lens for figuring out what your strengths are, finding top talents that are easy for you to lean on that will bring you success with the least amount of effort.

    Brea: Ooh, that sounds good. We talk about ease a lot on this podcast. I hope people don't think that we're lazy. We're not lazy, but we're just, you know, work smart people, not hard, you know?

    Lisa: I mean, I could work 48 hours a day. Clearly we don't have that many and just be doing thing after thing after thing, trying to get the small advantage. But if I could work one hour a day and get as far, why would you not?

    Brea: Why would you not?

    Lisa: That's my goal, Brea. I'm going to try to turn lazy.

    Brea: Forget four day work week. I'm doing a four hour work week. Come on, come on.

    Lisa: I love it.

    Brea: We are Brea Roper and Lisa Cummings signing off.

    Lisa: Bye for now.

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out team workshops and retreats at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the Get Coached link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 168 - Why Coaches Need A Signature Offer

This episode explores why having a clear and distinct “signature” offering is crucial for your coaching practice. Whether you're an internal coach or running your own independent gig, clarity is key! Having a clear and distinct offering can make all the difference in attracting the right clients and maximizing your impact.

That’s why we discuss the importance of aligning your signature offer with both your strengths and your clients' needs. We also share tips on how to choose the right modality and service, and even how to frame your offering around the problems you solve. Plus, we sprinkle in some fun anecdotes and examples from our own experiences, to make it clear – while you can have multiple offerings, a standout signature offer makes you memorable and repeatable. 

So, grab a notepad and pen, settle in, and let’s get you on the path to creating a signature offer that truly reflects your unique coaching style!

🌟

    • Clarity is Kindness: When potential clients encounter a confusing array of services, they may feel overwhelmed and move on. A signature offer makes it easier for clients to understand what you do, which ultimately leads to increased interest and profit. Remember, if you confuse, you lose!

    • Lead with the Problem You Solve: While it’s tempting to focus solely on the positive aspects of your services, we emphasized the importance of addressing the problems your clients face. By framing your signature offer around a specific problem, you can create urgency and relevance. This doesn’t mean you can’t highlight the positive outcomes; it’s about meeting your clients where they are and guiding them toward a solution.

    • Aligning Passion with Profitability: Choosing your signature offer is about finding that sweet spot where your passion meets profitability. Don’t be afraid to pivot if your current offering isn’t fulfilling you or your clients!

    • Embrace Your Unique Delivery: Recognize that your signature offer should reflect your unique strengths and style. Make it memorable and distinct so that it stands out in the market.

    • Flexibility in Offerings: Just because you have a signature offer doesn’t mean you can’t have other services. It’s about creating a clear starting point while still allowing for additional offerings that can evolve over time based on client needs and your interests.

    • Identify the Problem You Solve: When defining your signature offer, articulate the specific problem it addresses. This helps potential clients see the value in your service and why they should choose you.

    • Analyze Profitability: Review your past offerings to determine which services generated the most revenue. Use this data to inform your decision on what should be your signature offer moving forward.

    • Define Your Signature Offer: Just do it!

  • Lisa: I'm Lisa. 

    Brea: And I'm Brea. 

    Lisa: And today we're talking about Mambo No. 5.

    Brea: Little bit of Monica. Oh my gosh, we are so funny.  If people only knew how cool we were. 

    Lisa: I know. Okay, it's Signature Offers. A little bit about Why have a signature offer in your coaching practice? And a little bit of how. And you can see why this came up. A little bit of a hmm. Yeah. Let's talk why, though. What do you think, Brea? Why is it important to have a signature offer? Whether you're an internal coach or an independent coach, doesn't matter. Why do you need one of these?

    Brea: Right. Signature offer. So this is your standard offering, the thing that you do. Why? Because it's clear and clarity is kindness. And if you confuse, you lose. So if it's clear, It's easy for you to communicate, then that equals profit, that equals interest from people, and it attracts the people that you want to work with. Hopefully, if it's your signature offer, you love delivering it. So it's good to have a firm place to start and to stand. Not to say that we can't have other offerings as well, but we've talked about personal branding and the importance of that. This is what you are known for delivering.

    Lisa: Yes, I so agree with that as the number one. It's clear. And that's so important because when people are curious about what we do, if they come and they get a giant menu, it is confusing or overwhelming. You know, we have the urgent, important thing going on in our lives, like, oh, this is probably important people development, but it's just not urgent for this moment. So I'll come back and look at the menu later. That is what you do to the customer or potential customer, whether that's an internal customer or a prospect for your independent business. And even if it sounds desirable, they can just be like, I'm moving on. And that to me is why you need a signature offer so that when they're looking for that thing, it grabs them.

    Brea: Can we talk more about how clarity is kindness?

    Lisa: Yeah, I love that phrase.

    Brea: I'm sure it's not mine. I'm sure I've picked it up from someone way smarter than me, like Brene Brown or something is what's coming to mind. It's true, and so I'm sharing it with all of you. I don't know. Everyone listening might not know this. Your brain, when it's working, when it's doing all its stuff, it's consuming calories. That's why when you're at a conference or you're in a class or you're reading a lot, you're learning a lot, you can stand up and physically you weren't doing anything. You were sitting on your behind, but you stand up and you're like, man, I'm exhausted. Because our brain actually consumes calories. And so because of our, you know, primal instinct and all that stuff, it's our nature to want to make things simple, to conserve the energy for when threat comes and we need to go out there and fight the dragons or whatever, you know. So the more simple, the more clear, the more easy to understand that we can make our offerings, the better. Because if the brain has to work too hard about something that it doesn't think is very important, like what you just said, Lisa, like there are other things that my brain is, you know, like working on right now, it will dismiss it. And you don't want to be that thing that gets dismissed.

    Lisa: Oh, yes, exactly. And I say never fear everyone listening. You might be like, yeah, but I really love one-on-one coaching and I really love speeches and I really love workshops. The thing is, after you've done your favorite one or the big one or the one, let's, we'll talk in a minute about how to pick which one is the signature offer. They'll ask you, what's next? Where do we go from here? How else can I work with you? And then all of those other things can unfold. So it's not as if failing to mention all of the other ones up front means you'll never do them again. It just makes it clear and easy to digest the first go round.

    Brea: Yeah, that's right. That's right.

    Lisa: Let's talk about how you pick. So, hey, I know you have a menu. I have a menu. They're both fairly big. How do you decide what your signature would look like?

    Brea: I mean, for me, it comes down to profitability. That's not a strength of mine, focusing on what makes the most money or what keeps me in business. And so it's really easy for me to just look back at the data and be like, OK, last year, where did most of my money come from? What are people buying? You know, that's a real easy way for me to say, OK, well, let's lean into that. Right. We find what works and we do more of that.

    Lisa: And it really works for both of you. you like the service and they want to buy it. So it overlaps. That means it's a great one for both of you.

    Brea: Sometimes, though, what is making me the most money is not actually what I like the most. So that's a good exercise to look at that and then decide, do I want to create a signature offering that is something that I like that maybe people haven't bought in the past or haven't bought as much? Kind of like I'm thinking of you, Lisa, like when you switch to fully virtual, you know, like it's a little scary to lean into that, but that's what you needed and what you wanted and so you went for it. But that would be my first approach to the signature offer is to figure out what is your signature offer now either on purpose or by accident and do you want it to still be your signature offer moving forward.

    Lisa: Yeah, I love it. OK, so when I think of a signature offer, there's the service itself and what is the modality? So the modality, I think you pick something like, is my signature modality training, one-on-one coaching, in-person, virtual? book tours. I mean, it could be anything that you can imagine that you could get paid for that is the service, but what's that modality? And then the service itself. So if you do retreats, it's like one-on-one or a one-on-one retreat would be weird, but you could, I guess that's a VIP day, right? Hey, hey, so there you go. If I spoke as Brea, I do the most amazing, immersive, one-on-one VIP days. I mean, imagine if a person heard that and that was them, what they would feel like. So I like that modality plus service, but then I also like adding in, be ready with a problem you solve Because, like when I said, I help leaders build their teams after reorgs, that's kind of generic. That's not the service. That's a problem. So like, Ooh, I'm just going through a reorg, and it really stinks right now. How do you do that? Oh, I do that through half-day workshops with CliftonStrengths. And then boom, they've got your modality, your service, your problem, you've got it all in there.

    Brea: Yep. And that's usually where Eileen, I think we've talked about that before with my story brand background. I'm a firm believer in leading with the problem, not in a negativity or to try to scare you into working with me type of way, but in a, this is actually where people's brains are. And so if you're going to communicate with them, you need to meet them where they are and where they are is usually working on a problem. And so, um, to align with that, I think is really smart. Yes. Yes.

    Lisa: And I think it is important to mention it with our audience because let's be real about who we are. We're talking a lot about coaches, trainers, speakers. Most listeners are into strengths. So if you're out there, we're all alike in the way that we see potential. We try to focus on what's great. So to turn around and say, focus on a problem, it really does like we're going to get a little glitch in your brain. Like that's not what I want to do. I want to focus people on the positive. And if you layer in human psychology, I really love Thinking Fast, Thinking Slow, even though it's the most giant book and a little heavy to get through. But Daniel Kahneman, Nobel Prize winning behavioral economist, putting the stats behind what Brea just said, that people are two times more likely to act if they're moving away from a negative versus when they're moving toward a positive. So giving the feel good potential is nice. And you can also create more urgency and interest if you can help them solve a problem that's pressing and eating up their headspace. Yeah, and it is positive to serve them in that way because they can get that negative thing over with.

    Brea: Yep, that's right. I have helped a lot of coaches with their marketing of their signature offer and even the creation of their signature offer that fits with them and many strengths coaches keep coming back to this point of like, I don't want to offer something that solves a problem. I want, you know, I want to work with people who want to really integrate strengths into their organization. I don't want to work with organizations or managers that are in the middle of a problem. I want to work with people who are thriving, you know, and they want to get more of that. So we want to bring strengths in. So that's fine. You don't have to have a negative Your solution doesn't have to be to go into the depths of the problem areas with people. You can have a really positive, proactive, strength-focused solution. and recognize that whoever's buying that does have a problem, even if it's not a problem like you would normally define it. Like, um, such as maybe their problem is they just have too much going on. They really want to provide excellent professional development for their team. They really want this, you know, offsite to, just rock their people. Their people have been working so hard and they want to reward them, they want to appreciate them, like all the positive things that give us all the, you know, all the tinglys as strengths coaches. That's what they want. They don't have time to do that themselves. Boom. There's your problem.

    Lisa: Yes. Yes. And you know what you sparked for me? I had a, in a past role, I worked for another company and we had a signature offer of training that is two full days. And I was an executive in charge of this product. And you know what the number one feedback was from customers? It wasn't about the content. It was about the length. It was two days. We can't give people two days. What? Two days? Could you make this a half a day? Could you make this a half a day? Could you make this a half a day? I heard so many times, could you make this half day? That when I started Lead Through Strengths, I was like, absolutely, 100%, my signature offer is going to be a half day because I heard from so many big corporate people who were my audience, that that is the amount of time that was palatable for them to give. And I didn't want to fight all the objections of two days. Would I rather spend two days with them immersing in their awesomeness? Yeah, that sounds pretty fun. Yeah. yet I knew what needed to be signature. Once in a while they'll ask to extend it and they'll do the full day version, but it is actually really rare. It's just such a sweet spot of a time and that has stood the test of a decade. It's really incredible.

    Brea: I have also found that and kind of gave into it. You know, I was like, okay, sure, well, we can accommodate, you know, I'll customize, I'll take some stuff out, we'll squeeze it in, you know, to half a day. But that doesn't satisfy me. I love the full day, two day or even, you know, some micro learnings once a month for a year or, you know, packaging it in smaller bites like that is what fuels me. So I've learned that I need to, I need to hold out for those customers and I need to be specific and market to those customers. And there, there are less of them, you know, like you said, a lot of people are looking for the half day. So that's that's my signature offer is look I can create this experience. I'll take care of everything. I'll find the venue. I'll find the food. Like you don't have to worry about a thing. You just sit back and I got this. All you have to do is show up and I promise to make you the person that hired me. I promise to make you the hero. I'm going to create this amazing experience for your team and you get to take all the credit and all the fruit from what comes from it in days to come. So for coaches that are listening, it's just so important to look at your own strengths and create a signature offer that fits with you and satisfies the need of your customer.

    Lisa: Yes. I love everything you said. It made me think of Carol Wheeler. She's one of our fellow coaches in New Braunfels, Texas. Shout out, Texas. And she's got this physical space in New Braunfels, Texas, and she owns that market. If you're in New Braunfels and you're doing leadership training, strengths training, she's the person that you will think of or that colleagues will refer to because she owns that space. And that's a beautiful thing about signature offers too. It's, It's ownable because it is the more distinct, the more differentiated, the more other people can help you. So it's another good reason to have a signature offer because it makes you memorable and repeatable for other people. It makes it easy to share.

    Brea: I mean, you know, I love words and the phrase signature offer is so on point because when we think about actual signature, yes, it's writing our name, it's writing these letters, but my signature of my name is so unique to me. No one else can deliver that in the same way. And I think, you know, if you want to really create a true signature offer, that's the impact that you can have. It's so unique in the way that you deliver it, that you own that space. I love that. What a great example. Yes.

    Lisa: And I think for me, closing with some wisdom from Tyann Osborne, one of our fellow strengths coaches. is she always talks about how just because you have this signature offer doesn't take away the fact that you have the credibility of the other offers that you have and it doesn't mean that those go away. Getting really clear doesn't mean those other things disappear. It just makes that one thing stand out.

    Brea: There you go.

    Lisa: There you go. Then whoomp, there it is.

    Brea: Whoomp, there it is. That reminds me of D2, Mighty Ducks. It's probably in a lot of movies and whatever, but that's where I think I first heard that song.

    Lisa: I don't even know what that is. D2, Mighty Ducks. What?

    Brea: The Mighty Ducks, you've never seen the Mighty Ducks. Wait, is that a hockey team? Yes.

    Lisa: Okay, I don't know if I've ever seen it.

    Brea: Oh my gosh, Lisa. Okay, well, Slumber Party at Lisa's house. We're watching Mighty Ducks and D2. It'll be a movie marathon. Oh my gosh. There's so much pop culture I'm behind on. Any other 90s kids out there? Your jaw is on the floor just like mine. I'm like, oh my gosh, The Sandlot, Mighty Ducks. I mean, just right back to my middle school years. I love it. Love it.

    Lisa: Yeah, if you ever want to just have people's jaws drop at the things I do not know or understand, name celebrities and movies like that, and I'll just be like, I don't know. I mean, music, I have pretty broad taste. I can do that kind of pop culture. But movies and television shows, I've never been a watcher. And so I am just real behind on those kind of things.

    Brea: Oh my gosh. Well, that's all right. We can catch you up to speed. We can catch up to speed. I won't do that. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Turtles in a half shell.

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out team workshops and retreats at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the Get Coached link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 167 - Strengths and Your Personal Brand

In today's episode, we dive into building your personal brand as a coach. You’ll hear about "Connected Kelly," a coach who initially felt pressured to conform to an analytical persona in her big tech job, only to discover that her true strength—Connectedness—was what truly set her apart. You’ll learn how she transformed her approach, leading to a more fulfilling and energized coaching practice.

We also explore practical tips for building your personal brand, including how to identify the challenges you can help solve and how to communicate your unique value effectively. Whether you're an independent coach or working internally at a company, it’s important to be specific in your messaging to connect with your ideal clients. 

So, if you’re ready to make sure your coaching brand aligns with your personal brand, this episode is packed with insights and actionable advice to help you shine!

🌟

    • Your differences are your differentiators: Don’t shy away from what makes you different. Like Connected Kelly, who initially suppressed her connectedness, recognizing and embracing your unique strengths can lead to a more fulfilling coaching practice.

    • Be specific in your messaging: Vague statements like "I help you live your best life." are unclear and uninteresting. Instead, focus on clear, compelling messages that resonate with your audience, such as "I help get your emails get read." This specificity helps potential clients see the value you offer.

    • You are your brand: Your personal brand is a reflection of who you are. By aligning your strengths, values, and messaging, you’ll create a cohesive brand that resonates with your audience and showcases your unique contributions.

    • Narrowing your focus can attract more clients: When it comes to marketing, less is more! Don’t fear that specializing will limit your opportunities. Instead, it can help you attract clients who are specifically looking for the solutions you provide, ultimately leading to a more successful coaching practice.

    • Identify Your Strengths: Reflect on your unique strengths and how they contribute to your coaching practice. Let your differences be your differentiators – in your brand, your business model, and beyond. 

    • Identify the Challenges You Solve:: Determine the specific challenges you want to address as a coach. Consider what problems your ideal clients face and how your strengths can help solve those issues. This will help you create targeted messaging that resonates with your audience.

    • Craft Your Messaging: Develop a clear, concise, and compelling answer to the question, "What do you do?". 

    • Utilize Your Online Presence: Update your LinkedIn profile and other online platforms to reflect your personal brand. Incorporate your strengths and the specific problems you solve in your headlines and descriptions to attract the right clients.

    • Engage with Your Audience: Actively communicate your value and the unique contributions you bring to your coaching practice. Share insights, tips, and success stories that highlight your strengths and the impact you can have on your clients' lives.

  • Lisa: Hi, I'm Lisa.

    Brea: I’m Brea.

    Lisa: And today's episode is strengths and your personal brand as a coach.

    Brea: Yes. Oh my gosh. I love this topic. Let's just dive in.

    Lisa: I'm so excited. Okay, let's dive in. I want to dive in with an example of something that happened with a coach who was building a personal brand as a coach and she didn't know it and it wasn't at all what she would have done on purpose. Ooh, I'm intrigued. Tell us more.

    Brea: Because I think that so many people fall into this trap.

    Lisa: Yeah. Heck yes, we do. I imagine most of us have done this where we unintentionally built a reputation on something that we just became skilled at because we practiced it a lot. And this person, I'm going to call her Connected Kelly. I made up her name because I want to keep her anonymous. But she led through connectedness, hence Connected Kelly.

    Brea: And alliteration. We love alliteration. OK. I mean, who doesn't?

    Lisa: OK. She's a real client. She works in big tech. And she felt like I need to be analytical. That's what I need to be, to be believed, to be credible, to be desired in this company, to be found useful in this company. 

    I mean, we could go on and on, but analytical was the thing that she really grabbed onto as important for her to be. So she spent a lot of years really honing it, doing analytical actions, showing analytical skills, and showing up that way.

    Brea: And probably because she's surrounded with people who are acting like this or who are showing up that way. She feels like she has to be that too. Yeah. Okay. I'm with you.

    Lisa: Yeah. And I can, I mean, my individualization loves that in many ways because I'm thinking, well, she's being palatable to the people that she's around. So she's thinking, this is who I need to be for them. Otherwise they won't value me. And specifically when we talked about connectedness, she was like, oh, that's for my friends.

    Brea: She's like, that part of me doesn't belong at work. You know, that's my at home or my with friends. Okay. Yeah. Interesting.

    Lisa: Yeah. She really felt deeply like it didn't belong there. Like it would get shunned there. It would get made fun of there. She said it felt like people would perceive it as woo woo, that it would just not go over well. So she just shut it off, like put up the wall, anything. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

    So what's the results of it now? She it's not like she was faking it. She legitimately built analytical skills and she legitimately used them with her clients, but the repercussion is She was completely wiped out. It was sucking the life out of her because it wasn't fun. It was just something she could do

    And I think this is a really important lesson for building a personal brand as a coach, because if you do what you're competent at, you're going to get more of that. She's great. She's an amazing performer, an amazing person. So she kept getting more of the work she didn't want because she showed up and she was good at the work she didn't want. 

    Brea: That's the worst, the worst. 

    Lisa: It's a bad cycle.

    Brea: Digging your own grave, you know.

    Lisa: Yes, yes. Now we did some things with it so I can tell you what I did with her and then I want to switch over to things that you might do with her after she's to the point where she's ready. She feels good about her personal brand aligned with her strengths so that her personal brand as a coach is making her feel alive. It's bringing her clientele that she loves. 

    So I have this personal branding page. It's leadthroughstrengths.com slash personal dash branding. We started there. We started looking at her top five. We really honed in on connectedness because it was one she said she was squashing. And we just use it as a starting point because she's like, OK, genuine. Well, that's a good thing for me to be as a coach. Being present with people, that's a good one. Okay. 

    And then we start talking about things like, Oh, I see downstream effects. I understand how parts are connected. I have good rapport across departments. Okay, like all these things could be useful internally. I just shut it off. Because I thought it was the woo-woo strength. 

    So first pass through, it was really cool, because she realized What a fool! Why am I shutting all this off? There are actually things that I believe people in big tech would value. 

    And in fact, she's realizing people are like, oh, wow, you're an intrapersonal genius. And they're seeing these elements of her that she didn't show before. And they're things that the clients wanted from her and really valued because they don't know how to do that at all. So that was cool.

    Brea: Yeah, it's the lie that we tell ourselves that when we are different, the talents that we might have that are different than what we see around us, we believe that it won't be valued or that it won't be wanted. 

    And sometimes that is true, but most of the time it is very valuable because other people don't have it. They don't have that capacity, they don't have that ability, and when they saw that in her, that uniqueness, it became her differentiator, right? That's the word that you like to use, Lisa. 

    Lisa: Yeah, that your differences are your differentiators. Exactly.

    Brea: Yes, yes. I think Gallup's focus on naming, claiming, and aiming is what's coming to my head here. 

    When she was able to look at connectedness and really name it, really understand what that talent is. Maybe it had been called the woo-woo strength, but it was so much more than that. 

    So when she was able to start finding new definitions for that talent theme, I think that opens up so much potential for us to then claim it, for us to love it in ourselves, you know, for her to see how it could be beneficial at work and how she could love working. How her life at work could actually energize her instead of draining her energy and sucking her soul. She could come to work and thrive and it could increase the connection that she makes with her employees. 

    And so then when she was able to better understand what it is and what it could be and she could get excited about it and really own it, then she started to aim it and that's where all the magic happens. So what a great example.

    Lisa: So, one of the things she named it as was Integrator. She was working with a bunch of software developers, hardware engineers, and what happens is the engineers speak in specifications. That's what was important to them. 

    But At some point, somebody has to translate that to the non-technical people, whether that is to the marketing team so that you could talk about that to a customer audience and they could actually understand it or otherwise. 

    So she started thinking of herself as an integrator because she could see all the connections, because she could speak human. They felt like she was a complete genius in this area, but that never got exposed until she started looking at connectedness as this great element of herself and it really became key in her personal brand as a coach. 

    So, okay, Brea, I know you are a StoryBrand coach and that you keep it under the covers all the time and people don't even know this about you. Let's get some of this magic out of this brain you have on StoryBrand.

    Brea: Yes, I was trained in StoryBrand. That’s true.

    Lisa: Yeah, OK, so now let's say she wants to work her personal brand as a coach now and connectedness and being an integrator and being perceptive, being a connector. These are some parts of her messaging. 

    If she came to you and said, OK, now what? How do I build this reputation? How do I begin to change it? How do I do the messaging? What kind of things come up for you and what could be valuable that you could bring? Because I think you have this unique lens because you have story brand and strengths mixed together and it's so cool and I want the audience to get it from you.

    Brea: Yeah, thank you. That's why I call my business Strength+Story. I use both of those things all the time. So this is a fun conversation to have. 

    So if you've never heard of StoryBrand, it's a marketing framework that is built on or let's maybe even say adapted from just general framework of story because there's so much scientific proof and just I think all of us have experience of how story it connects with our brains in a very powerful way. 

    And there's a framework to it. It's not by accident that the blockbuster movies or the best-selling books are blockbusting or best-selling. That's not by accident. It's by design. 

    So essentially, if you are adapting this to your brand as a coach, there's a challenge that you help people overcome. So most good stories start with a bomb going off, you know, something that's like really challenging, a problem that needs to be fixed, right? That's what grabs our attention and locks us in from the very beginning, the, the bomb ticking away, right? 

    So what is that challenge that you as a coach, want to solve for the world, for a particular client, for your company, if you're an internal coach like Connected Kelly, what is the challenge that you have a personal mission to overcome? If you can identify that for yourself, then you can build your messaging around that. 

    Because when you're communicating that challenge in your messaging and in your branding, in the way you talk about your services, if you're leading with that challenge, you're going to attract the people who need that solution, right? 

    So it's not a marketing gimmick. It's not a way to manipulate people or to scare people into working with you. It's a real way of connecting with the people who need your services. So I would say that's a great place to start. 

    And it sounds like Connected Kelly did that where it was kind of a backwards on accident way of doing it. So the challenge is to figure it out first so that you can put that out there in your messaging and your branding.

    Lisa: on purpose. It is funny that you say this because there's something really simple that was going on with the problem that linked to her brand which was just no one reads my emails. 

    And it's because they were boring speeds and feeds, they were not compelling, they were not written from the perspective of the reade: an internal person who's really busy in back-to-back meetings all day. and she's offering coaching services to people who don't really know what a coach is or how a coach can help. 

    When she realized the thing that would grab them: ‘I can help your emails get read. I can help you get responses, get noticed by your peers so that you become the collaborator.’ So the kind of things that they were having problem with and frustration with, like, ‘hey, I sent an email off and it goes into a black hole.’ Now it doesn't. 

    Now she is helping them. because she's the integrator, she's helping them communicate with their colleagues in a way that helps them get noticed. And it's because of her connectedness. It's because she can think beyond the analytical. 

    So I really love that because she was solving that problem for them and loved solving that problem for them. And it was easy for her to do that. And they thought she was a genius. 

    And she never thought about messaging like this. She was just like, hey, we're here. We can help you live your best life. This is something that we're guilty of as coaches. We're like, oh, everyone needs a coach. It's so powerful. It's amazing. You want to feel good again? You want to live your best life? But inspiration like that actually doesn't drive people to action the way that solving a problem for them does.

    Brea: That's right. That's right. And this is where it can be so interesting because You can approach the problem from two different ways. You can look at the problem that your client or your potential client is facing, like no one reads my emails, and make that the problem that you solve. 

    That's a great way to do it because your client is the hero of their own story. So when they hear your messaging, it needs to be their story that they hear or else they're not interested, right? so many other things pulling for their attention, right? So make it easy for them. 

    The other way to do it is to look at your strengths. And if you if you are a certified strengths coach, you know this language of bring and need. What do each of your strengths bring? What do they contribute? What problems do they solve really, really well with ease? And you love solving those problems. 

    And then just make that your business, right? Choose that problem and then put it out there and let the right people find you. So you can go either way and I think that's the first place to start. 

    If you're listening now and you're like, I really want to work on being intentional about my personal brand as a coach, I would say start with your strengths. figure out what problems you solve really naturally and you want to solve and then build your business around that 

    or figure out what are the problems that your clients are already coming to you for, right, that you have successfully helped people with and figure out how your strengths are doing that and then be intentional about really leaning into that and building your brand around that.

    Lisa: I love this conversation and it overlaps so much with the one about And I know we'll do a separate episode on what your niche is as a coach. But there's overlap because it's like this all relates to what is your specialty? What is unique about working with you? 

    And if you're not clear in your messaging, then you just overwhelm people with options and they scroll on by because you really have to grab attention with somebody, especially today. There are so many things competing for attention. So that person has to be like, whoa, that was written for me. 

    And so if she is the one saying, I hope your emails get noticed. I hope your emails get read by colleagues. I hope your specifications get implemented properly. Whatever it is, that wouldn't grab me personally, but I'm not her client. So that's the beauty of it. We know to scroll on by because we're not her client, but the people who are are like, whoa, I need that. 

    And I think the objection that coaches have to this is we think if I narrow too much, then people won't know what else I could do for them when I decided to specialize in virtual. 

    I remember the angst I had about putting that on the website, like we specialize in virtual training. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to lose all my in-person workshops. It's going to be detrimental to the business. 

    It's not what happened at all. I attracted more virtuals. And then plenty of people still said, Oh, do you also do in-person? Why? Yes, we do.

    Brea: Because people are not idiots. They can fill in the blanks. They can make those very easy jumps and connections. So you don't have to spell everything out, but you need to give them a place to start, you know? Yes. It's clear.

    Lisa: Yes.

    Brea: Yeah, and it's interesting because as coaches, like let's flip it, let's put our coaching hat on, okay? So we're in a conversation with a client and they say, gosh, I really just want to be my best self at work. I really want to live my best life, right? What's the very next thing that you would say?

    Lisa: Tell me more.

    Brea: Well, yeah, “Tell me more.” Or “What does that mean? What does your best life look like?”, right? 

    Lisa: Yeah, yeah. 

    Brea: So what you're saying, Lisa, and what we're saying about building this personal brand that's more specific, instead of just saying, hey, coaching's gonna help you live your best life, it doesn't connect with people. It doesn't connect. 

    So you understand as a coach, that if someone came to you and said, I want to live my best life, your job is to help them understand. what that best life is. It's not enough just to leave them with this desire to live their best life. That's not helpful to them. 

    So why are we putting that out in our marketing? Why do we think it's going to be helpful to them in marketing? It's not. And it, which means it's not helpful to you in building your business. It's not, not profitable. It's not converting. 

    So it is helpful. It is It is your responsibility even to be specific in your messaging, in your marketing, to niche down, to find that signature offer, to build your business model around your strengths, the problems that you solve. That's actually more helpful to the people that you serve and it's a win-win for your business as well.

    Lisa: Yes, yes, yes. And I think that's a great place to issue a challenge. What could you talk about in your personal brand that brings in your ideal client, somebody who'd be so fun to work with on a topic that you love coaching on? What could be your hook for marketing? 

    So to Brea's point about your customer being the hero of the story, you're making them the hero by making them stop in their tracks and say, whoa, this was written for me. That's right.

    Brea: They're the hero. You're the guide. They're Luke Skywalker. You are their Yoda, right? Especially in coaching, this metaphor works so well because whoever you're coaching, they are the ones that are doing the work. They're the hero of the story, right? 

    They're the one that's on their journey. They're the one that is actually doing the work. You are just there to empathize, to keep them on track, to keep them focused, to keep them moving in the right direction. They're the ones that are doing the work. 

    So your marketing should reflect that. Your messaging should reflect that. Your brand, your visual brand online, you know, in your print media, your deliverables, and you, the way that you speak, the way that you come into networking meetings. Just who you are should align with what you do and they should really flow into and out of each other. 

    A brand is not something that you just create. You can use this intellectual process to help you get intentional about it, but You are your brand. Your strengths are such a natural place to start when it comes to this because that's what makes you unique. So how do your unique strengths set you apart amongst other strengths coaches? It's not just the client that you serve or the problem that you solve, it's how you do that. 

    So I just love this conversation in general, but then bringing strengths into it is such a natural, just a natural fit because that's what strengths does best is figuring out what's unique about you, what your unique value is, what your contribution is, what's unique about how you approach it. 

    And if you can get clear about that and put it out there, you're doing the same thing for yourself as you're helping your clients do for themselves, you know, in their lives.

    Lisa: Yes. I love also that we've talked about the independent coach. We'll see a lot of this as natural because they've already been thinking, Oh, I need my messaging. I have to write about myself on my website. I have to have, I have to have my messaging in all the places that I'm talking about my business. 

    But for internal coaches, I don't think that they have often put a lot of thought into where this messaging would happen or could happen. And just imagine, what if your headline in LinkedIn mentioned something around your personal brand? 

    Imagine how many times, okay, yesterday, I was personally in my coaching practice, I was talking to a really big customer and there were five people there from the client and they went around the room and described what their role is and three of the five people said, I am in HR. 

    Brea: Boring! 

    Lisa: Yeah! Could you imagine if a person was like, oh, I'm in HR. My role is that I'm an internal coach, and I help people get their emails read at work. I would be like, ooh. I don't even need the service, and I'm not even a potential customer, but I'm still like, ooh. 

    That's really interesting because it's so specific. I also know, oh, I need that. I have a friend who needs that. Oh, I can refer somebody internally. So think about all those places where you might communicate. 

    If they had used your story brand, they could have been beneficial to some other person who was doing an intro to say, oh, I know somebody. Oh, I know six people in my department who need that.

    Now they're referring people to you and you're getting the work that you want more of because that work energizes you. You're working yourself into a lot of job security because you're in such high demand. So there are all kinds of places this come up. 

    And just think of how many times someone asks you, “What do you do?” That happens all over the place, whether you're an internal coach or an independent coach. So that's a great application for this. 

    If you're listening, and you're like, I get it. Now, what do I go implement from this? Have an answer to that question, “What do you do?”

    Brea: So you're tee-ing me up really well for my call to action for this episode, Lisa.

    Lisa: Bring it.

    Brea: Usually, answering that question, “So, what do you do?” brings fear and dread and makes us, you know, shake in our boots because we don't know how to answer that question. 

    So if you're really, really good at what you do, but you don't know how to talk about it and you definitely don't know how to give a compelling, concise answer to that question, “What do you do?” If that's something that you need – that one-liner, that elevator pitch, whatever you call it, you need to reach out to me and we'll get it done.

    Lisa: Hit her up, brearoper.com.

    Brea: Whether it's a workshop for your team or whether you want to do this one-on-one with me, I also have a keynote version, but answering that question, so what do you do? That is one of my favorite things to do. What about you, Lisa?

    Lisa: I have a membership for coaches who are building their independent practice and they need help when it comes to the business building practices like, Oh, I don't have business acumen. Oh, I don't know about all the tech. Oh, I, or I was an executive and I left work and all these people used to do all of that. And I, now I have to be the person doing it. 

    So templates, tools, strategy, marketing, sales, operations, all of that stuff that you might want to learn from a business coach and steal. I actually let people steal all of the stuff I've used in the 10 years of my coaching practice so that they can get a head start and they don't have to spend so much time being bogged down in the business side. 

    And that's leadthroughstrengths.com and look for the link called Tools for Coaches.

    Brea: Love it. We are all about giving and sharing and abundance. And I just really hope that this information is helpful to you. So please take advantage of either of those offers. Both of those offers go out there and build your personal brand based on your strengths. The world needs what you have to give. So don't be shy in putting it out there.

    Lisa: Yeah. The world needs it, and when they hear about it, they get excited. So you've got to give yourself a chance by actually putting it out instead of just saying, I'm an HR, next person.

    Brea: Oh, my gosh. OK, we can do better. We need to do better. You deserve to do better. It's hard to find our place in the world. But once we do, once we can get clear on how we show up, how we can contribute, what our purpose is, what our role is in the bigger picture. 

    There's just so much freedom there for you to be able to step into that with confidence every day. I mean, no more imposter syndrome, right? Like when you know who you are, why you're there, the value that you bring, how you're making lives of the people around you or the processes around you or whatever it is that you're involved in. 

    When you're making that better, I mean, who doesn't want to live that life, you know? So you owe it to yourself to get clear about your value and your strengths and how to clearly communicate that so you can do what you do best.

    Lisa: Yes. Yeah. Don't withhold it from the world. We need you. We want you. And Brea just dropped the mic. So we've got to go because she doesn't have a microphone anymore.

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out team workshops and retreats at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the Get Coached link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 166 - Should You Avoid Bias In Coaching?

Every coach grapples with today’s topic: Should you avoid bias while coaching? We kick things off by acknowledging that the answer isn't as straightforward as it seems. While many might instinctively say "yes," we explore the nuances of bias and how it can actually play a positive role in coaching. 

Whether you're an independent coach or working within a company or organization, this episode is packed with insights to help you embrace your unique coaching style while still being the best support for your clients. Let's get into it!

🌟

    • Bias Isn't Always Bad: We often think of bias as a negative trait, but in coaching, it can actually be a powerful tool. Our personal biases—rooted in our strengths and experiences—can enhance our coaching effectiveness. For instance, if you have a strong belief in your clients' potential, that bias can help them borrow your confidence as they work toward their goals. Embracing our biases can lead to more authentic connections with our clients.

    • Awareness of Preferences: As coaches, it's crucial to recognize our own preferences and how they shape our coaching style. Understanding our preferences helps us create a coaching environment that aligns with our strengths while also being transparent with our clients about how we operate. This clarity can help clients determine if we're the right fit for them.

    • The Balance Between Coaching and Expertise: Sometimes, coaches feel pressured to avoid giving direct advice, fearing it may introduce bias. However, there are moments when sharing our expertise is not only appropriate but necessary. It’s about finding the right balance—knowing when to ask powerful questions and when to provide guidance based on our knowledge and experience.

    • Reflect on Your Biases: Take time to identify and acknowledge your own biases and preferences as a coach. Consider how these may influence your coaching style and interactions with clients.

    • Communicate Your Preferences: Clearly articulate your coaching preferences and styles to potential clients. This transparency can help clients determine if you are a good fit for their needs.

    • Balance Coaching and Expertise: Recognize when to lean into your expertise and provide direct advice versus when to facilitate a coaching conversation.

    • Leverage Positive Bias: Use your positive biases, such as belief in your clients' potential or your focus on strengths, to support and encourage them. Allow clients to borrow your belief in their capabilities to help them progress.

    • Embrace Differences as Strengths: Foster an environment where diverse perspectives and biases are seen as advantages. Encourage open discussions about biases within teams to enhance collaboration and understanding.

  • Lisa: Hi, I'm Lisa.

    Brea: And I'm Brea.

    Lisa: And today's topic is all for coaches. And it's this question. Should you avoid bias while coaching? What say you, Brea?

    Brea: Well, this sounds like it's going to be a juicy topic. That's what I say. I think it's not so clear black or white this time. I feel like there's a lot of gray here.

    Lisa: Right. And I think people will be listening. You tell us listeners, did you say, I don't even know if I want to listen to this one because of course the answer is yes, I should avoid it. I don't even need to listen. Skip.

    Brea: Yeah. I mean, that was my first thought was like, well, of course you should. That's my, you know, what all of the, the gold star coaching programs are going to tell you.

    Lisa: Yeah, I feel like you get the message both. You should avoid bias while coaching, and you should avoid bias in all areas of life altogether. And I think a good discussion is warranted. But why don't we start with where bias would be bad. So whether you have an independent coaching practice, or you're an internal coach in a workplace, I have two things that feel like bias that you should be on watch for. One, I have an agenda for you. I want you to own your own business, not stay in corporate. I want you to have bigger goals for your revenue. I want you, those are my wants, not yours. So that could bring a huge bias. So I have an agenda for you could be a warning where you really should avoid that bias while coaching. And then the other is when my preferences blind me as a coach. And this is where I think some of the juiciness you're talking about is going to come out because I have strengths, you have strengths as a coach, every coach does. And your strengths, if they represent how you think or feel or act, your preferences, your instincts, those will often come with assumptions. And so your preferences can blind you. So I think that's another one you just have to be aware of or try to avoid bias while coaching by knowing what preferences might blind you to their perspective, which of course questions can solve for.

    Brea: I'd like to talk more about that because sometimes as an independent coach with my own business practice where I'm the business owner and I've got a business model and a strategy to make profit and like all these things. My preferences play into that big picture a lot more than if I was an internal coach at a company where it was my only job was to show up for 30 minutes and coach. So maybe we could talk about preferences a little bit more.

    Lisa: That's an example. Say where I'm your customer and I come to your coaching business. and you have some preference. Give us an example of what that actually sounds like, because I think with this idea of avoiding bias, we're going to get people caught up in semantics where they're just like, nope, hard no. But I bet when you give an example, people might open their mind to the idea. Yeah.

    Brea: Yeah. You know, everything from I have a preference for how many coaching calls I want to do a day or a week or a month or however, you know, how long I want those to be. Do I want that to be on video? And then within video, is there a certain platform that is easier for me? I mean, I strongly prefer zoom over things like teams or Google meet or whatever, just because I've been using zoom for, as long as I've had my business, you know, almost eight years, like I'm very, very familiar with Zoom. So I'm more free to show up for my, my customer there. It's harder for me to be fully present when I'm using their platform. So that's a preference that I think is, is good to know that I have that functional bias of just ease of use. That doesn't mean that I will only ever use Zoom, but that's what I invite my customers to do. And if they ask for something different, then I can make another choice. But I think those types of preferences are good as you're building your own practice. It's good to know where you show up best because then you're able to give your best to your customer.

    Lisa: Yeah, they create clarity for you. And something that's simple and practical can be an area that allows the customer to decide if you're a good fit for them. You could think of putting out biases to the world, kind of like an exercise in saying, here's how I show up best. Here are my preferences. If these are a good match for you, we're going to be getting off to a great start.

    Brea: Yep, that's right. And it's interesting, I mean, of course, all of this comes from our strengths, right? Our own talent, makeup, but even things like agenda, there are coaches out there that appreciate having an agenda as far as like, a structure, you know. There are coaches out there that every coaching session looks pretty much the same, you know. They have kind of a flow for it. There might be certain worksheets that they use or just a general outline of the hour, you know. Five minutes here, 20 minutes here. Some coaches use slide decks. I prefer to just kind of show up and I don't like to prepare a lot. I like to just meet them as they are in the moment. I don't do worksheets during my coaching sessions usually. That would be something that you can do on your own after we talk, but I like a very casual flow. Those are personal preferences that come from my talent makeup. my bias, right? And I just think being aware of who you are as a person, how that translates into your coaching, that awareness is so key. And then you can choose, okay, do I need to lean into this or away from this? Is this hindering my coaching conversation at all? But just start with awareness.

    Lisa: And you're actually getting me to think even beyond preferences into advice giving when your client really wants it from you. So let's say you're an independent coach and you're an expert. You've been delivering CliftonStrengths for 10 years and you've been doing it in this specific industry. Now they come to you and they say, Hey, coach, give me your recommendations on how we should implement. And coaches get so wrapped up in this idea of not having bias. They're like, I can't have an opinion on anything. Everything in the world is met with a question that they need to answer for themselves.

    Brea: Isn't that ironic? Because that in and of itself is a bias, isn't it? It is.

    Lisa: Boom. Yes. And I mean, that's just going to be frustrating if a prospect comes to you and they're like, you have a skill, you have an expertise, and you have good questions. And yes, bring us all of your good questions. But if you're so avoidant, you're working so hard to avoid bias while you're coaching, that you won't even give a straight answer, you are just going to be frustrating. So I want to say yes to your preferences discussion and even amplify it further to be cautious of thinking that everything is coaching. Sometimes you're a person who's an expert in a field, and that's another word. That could be a whole other episode because some coaches are really worried about the word expert. But they just want an answer. So not everything, not every part of every conversation is a coaching moment.

    Brea: Yeah. I love that. I mean, I think I run my business and just my life that way. Every interaction that I have with other people, they're just interacting with me. Priya Roper, human being, you know, who wears a lot of different hats and can do a lot of different things and fill a lot of different roles. And I think that is just part of it, you know?

    Lisa: Yes. You also just pinged for me another reason why on the question, should you avoid bias while coaching your Answer might be no. And that is, what if you are a specialty coach? I thought of two things while you were talking. One is an accountability coach. If your promise of results is, I'm going to help you be accountable to what you said you want, I might use my bias and my techniques in a way that help you stay accountable to what you said. I've heard of a coach, one of my favorite niche examples is this woman who was a deltoid coach.

    Brea: I mean, I'm not even kidding. What do you mean?

    Lisa: I mean, this is not our typical mindset coach, life coach, executive coach kind of topic that we're normally talking about. This is literally your shoulder deltoid coach. I want you to have your killer looking deltoids. Yes. Looking, feeling strength, mobility and appearance. OK, right. How cool is that to just be so drilled in? Is she going to have bias? Yes, she is going to have a system, a structure. It's going to be really clear. Maybe people will argue system, structure, preferences are different from biases, but she's going to have an agenda for you.

    Brea: Yeah, and I think it's kind of similar to us as strengths coaches, right? I'm going to show up to every conversation that I have with a very, very strong bias toward focusing on what's working, what's good, what's right. That is the bias that I'm intentional about leaning into that, you know? So just like she is intentional about leaning into the deltoid, if that's what you're trying to do is is to refine that particular muscle in your body, that's exactly what you want. If you want overall conditioning or strengthening of your body, that's not what you want. So that's why it's so important for the person who's being coached to set their outcome And then us having a strong bias towards strengths, if that's what they're looking for, as far as how to get to their outcome, how to accomplish the outcome, we use that strengths bias to get us there. That's a good thing, right?

    Lisa: Right. I mean, you just had head explosion emoji for me because I was thinking about how we talk about specific cognitive biases that exist. There are a dozen of them, but one that we talk about often is we have a negative cognitive bias as a human. We're wired to figure out what's wrong. We're wired for protection. Well, then by definition, on the flip side, wouldn't positive cognitive bias, I'm making that up, but us leaning into strengths, trying to have a positive cognitive bias, isn't that a bias?

    Brea: Yes, it is. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's interesting because I think most of the time people hear the word bias and immediately they think negative. Because of that negative cognitive bias, right? That is a natural default mode for us as humans. So it's important to recognize that we can use bias for good. And yeah, there are times when that's appropriate and even needed, necessary, helpful, you know, all the things.

    Lisa: Yes, I have one final example of when avoiding, okay, doing the should you avoid bias while coaching? This question twists up my brain because the obvious answer is yes, but our answer today is resoundingly often no. Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes. So this example is Kind of on that topic of agenda, but people will come to me and they want to believe something bigger about themselves, about possibilities in their life or their career, and they're not there yet. And I am happy to let them borrow my belief in them because I believe in them so strongly. It's so easy for me to believe in my clients. Yes. And that's a bias. I am biased toward their success, their skills, their capabilities, their potential. And I think it's totally appropriate. And I want them to get this skill for themselves, because eventually they need to believe in themselves. But if they're like, Hey, I run a talent development department today. And in 2 years, I want to be out on my own with an independent coaching practice. I can't see myself getting there. I don't think I have the juice to be attracting clients while I'm here. And if I leave, I think I'm going to lose the farm. And they are doing the doomsday kind of snowball effect of their thoughts. And I can let them borrow the beliefs I have in them so we can bridge them to get there.

    Brea: You are just so good at believing in people and encouraging them and just giving your beliefs. And I think that's what we're talking about, being aware of our own strengths as coaches, our own talent profile, so that when the person in front of us needs that positivity, needs that belief, needs the talents that we have, We can give them and we can give them freely and we can just let that flow.

    Lisa: Yeah, the thing that happens often, I find, is people say, okay, I'm going out on my own. But I don't know. I mean, I don't know if I have what it takes to be a business owner. I don't know if I can cut it. I don't know if this, I don't know if that. But then they also say, I'm not getting new clients. I'm not attracting new clients. I don't know why. And that to me indicates you might be asking your prospects to believe in you more than you believe in you. It's really unfair. So, helping you get there, I might be pulling some bias in to help you with some tools I know. Now, they're going to be great questions. They're going to be coaching questions and you're going to come up with them. So, it's a mix. It's bias pulled into coaching and questions still totally directed by that person.

    Brea: Yeah, the other thing that comes up for me with bias is, from a strengths lens, is in communication. So this is certainly applicable in a coaching conversation, but it has a greater application to really any conversations you're having with anyone ever. But the idea that when someone says something to you, you receive that and interpret it through your talents, right? So your strategic hears, oh, I want to go out and start my own coaching business in two years. Your strategic hears that in a way that's very, very different than my communication, right? Yes. Initial, initial thoughts, initial interpretation. Very, very different. and how we respond, you know, in that coaching conversation that will take us on very different paths, right? If we just naturally let those talents lead that response, so.

    Lisa: I was just, I was thinking of so many workshops where that has come up, where I ask a question, the question reflects my strengths, my preferences, my biases. The teams who are answering it, they're coming from totally different planets, and they're reflecting their own biases in their questions and their reactions. And that whole discussion around bias, this, I always just call it cognitive bias, we're just different, we're wired different from our skills, experiences, strengths, talents, all those things. And it's just cool to explore instead of hearing the word bias and go, eek, run. Instead, like, bring it. What are your preferences? What would you normally assume given a situation like this? What should we talk about? Where are you coming from at your norm? And maybe we should know this about each other as a team. What a cool tool as a coach to be able to offer to your teams, to your coaches, to your clients. I mean, that is a great use of bias. You're literally bringing bias as a tool.

    Brea: So cool. It's so cool. And recognizing that we all have different cognitive patterns, right? So having so many different perspectives around the same question or around the same task, around the same goal is only going to help. You know, it's only going to aid us if we also agree that we're all moving together in the same direction, that our differences are advantages. We have to have that trust in each other. We have to have that common goal and know that our own individual biases are actually there to help and to work together.

    Lisa: Yeah, yeah. Your phrase, differences are advantages, is just the perfect way to sum all of this up and call them out. Mind them. hang around and talk about them a little bit, figure out what they are, because it's not like they instantly go away like some magic trick. They're there, and they could be used as actual advantages if you do it with purpose. So if someone wants to do that with purpose, with you, Brea Roper, tell us how to find you.

    Brea: brearoper.com, that's the best place to go. B-R-E-A-R-O-P-E-R.com and we can talk about an individual coaching plan, we can talk about coming in and doing some coaching with your team, we can talk about whatever it is that you need and then I can offer a solution. How about you, Lisa? 

    Lisa: Yeah, come on over and find me at leadthroughstrengths.com. Check out the link called Tools for Coaches. That's where I have a membership for independent coaches. And I also have a Workplace Edition for those of you who are internal coaches and just want all the goods, the tools, the decks, the worksheets, the content, the things you can borrow. to put these practices into your life. And then for the independent coaches, we really double down on evergreen marketing and systems so that you have a nice foundation for your business that lasts for years at a time.

    Brea: Amazing. Yeah, this is good. But again, I think maybe the best way to close is just to say, recognize that you do have bias and avoiding bias for the sake of avoiding bias is really only gonna set you up for failure because it's detracting from your authenticity. It's blocking you from actually connecting if you're trying to just avoid bias. It's taking your humanity out of you and all the things that make you special as a coach. So finding a good blend of who you are and good coaching principles and foundation. I think that's where I would land. What about you, Lisa?

    Lisa: Agreed. Let your differences be your differentiators, both for you and for the coachee and you're solid. 

    Brea: Strengths snaps. Hey.

    Lisa: See you next time.

    Brea: Bye.

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out team workshops and retreats at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the Get Coached link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 165 - Working On Your Business

In today's episode, we dive into the essential, yet often overlooked, concept of "working on your business" versus "working in your business." We share our personal experiences and insights on how taking intentional time to strategize can transform your entrepreneurial journey. If you've ever felt like you're just spinning your wheels, constantly reacting to the demands of your business, this episode is for you! We discuss the importance of stepping back, assessing your goals, and making those scary but necessary decisions that can lead to greater profitability and joy in your work.

You’ll hear us chat about the value of business planning retreats and how they can help you align your offerings with your strengths. Whether you’ve been in the game, are building a side hustle, or are still dreaming of the entrepreneurial life, it’s imperative to pause, reflect, and create a roadmap for success. So pull up a chair, settle in, and get ready to be inspired to take that much-needed time for yourself and your business!

🌟

    1. The Importance of Working on Your Business: Taking time to strategize and plan is crucial for long-term success. It helps you shift from a reactive mindset to a proactive one, allowing you to set clear goals and work with intention.

    2. Align Your Business With Your Strengths: When you’re the business owner, you get to choose how you run your business. YOU’re the boss now! Make sure you practice what you preach and choose a business model that fits your strengths.

    3. Business Planning Retreats: Dedicating a day or more to work on your business, instead of in your business, can lead to significant breakthroughs. These retreats provide the space to assess your offerings, refine your messaging, and make strategic decisions that align with your desired lifestyle.

    4. Customization vs. Standardization: While creating custom solutions for clients can be appealing, it’s essential to find a balance. Standardizing certain offerings can save time and energy, and bring clarity to your customer. 

    5. Understanding Profitability: Knowing where your revenue comes from is vital. By identifying your most profitable offerings, you can make informed decisions about where to invest your time and resources, ensuring that your business remains sustainable and enjoyable.

    6. Embracing Scary Decisions: Making bold choices can feel limiting, but they are often necessary for growth. By stepping back and evaluating your business strategy, you can confidently embrace changes that lead to greater fulfillment and success.

    • Schedule a Business Planning Retreat: Set aside a full day to work on your business strategically. Use this time to assess your current offerings, define your target audience, and outline your business goals.

    • Identify Your Core Focus: Determine the one big thing you want to focus on for the upcoming quarter or year. This will help filter your decisions and keep you from getting distracted by new opportunities that may not align with your primary goals.

    • Evaluate Your Offerings: Analyze where your revenue is coming from and identify your most profitable offerings. Decide if you want to double down on these or pivot to new opportunities that align better with your strengths and interests.

    • Create a Customization Strategy: If you offer customized solutions, establish a clear pricing structure for these services. Consider implementing tailoring fees or premium pricing for highly customized work to ensure it is profitable.

    • Reflect on Your Business Alignment: Take time to assess whether your current business model aligns with your strengths and desired lifestyle. Make adjustments as necessary to ensure that your business empowers you to live the life you want.

  • Brea:
    Lisa Cummings

    Lisa:

    Brea Roper. Hi, I'm Lisa.

    Brea: 

    And I'm Brea.

    Lisa: 

    And today we're talking about working on your business.

    Brea: 

    Working on your business. Yes, because let me tell you, working in your business is so fun. working on your business, not always, but gosh, when we do it, it makes working in the business so much easier and smoother and more profitable and all the things, right?

    Lisa: 

    Right. I remember first learning about this concept from the book E-Myth and E-Myth revisited way back. I mean, it must have been the nineties. I wasn't an entrepreneur at the time, but I served them. They were our customers and I think the example in the book was something about a frame shop. And it was like, imagine the person who is framing stuff all day long. Frame, frame, frame, frame, frame. And you can be so busy. But then what about bringing in customers? What about taking a vacation? What about having a break? And we have these dreams of starting a business and what our life might be like as an entrepreneur. It definitely kind of looks sexy to people who aren't doing it. often. And then you get in and you're like, Oh my gosh, I'm just working like a dog. What am I doing? I don't have a single break to even think or eat lunch. So I'm curious for you, have you gotten in that place in your business before where you were just working yourself to the bone? You seem like you would be a person who never let yourself do it because you're so good at intention.

    Brea: 

    Okay, well, thank you for saying that. But no, it happens all the time. It happens all the time because even with the best of intentions, it's so easy to get blown off course, especially for people like me who, you know, I love to plan and I'm very adaptable. I'm very like emotional, you know? So if I'm not feeling it, I'm like, Oh, I'm just going to go take care of myself, you know, go for a walk, go eat my feelings, you know, whatever. And like, that's not the best way to, to set yourself up for success. Right. So we have to find that blend that works for you. And sometimes it is working yourself to the bone. Right now, I'm actually setting up for a big speaking tour. So there's just a ton of work that has to be done on the business so that when the tour starts, you know, that first domino falls and I'm not working on the business at all. For several months, I'm working in the business, right? So However the rhythm works for you, it's just so important to make sure that you're doing both and that it's intentional and focused instead of just reacting to everything. That's the worst way to to run your business, you know? Yeah. And I have definitely, definitely fallen into that, that trap for sure.

    Lisa: 

    Yeah. Brea Roper is a mortal.

    Brea: 

    Yes.

    Lisa: 

    I could see that where you're like, I'm over self caring. I could, I could definitely see that. I also think in talking to coaches and trainers very specifically in this episode, a lot of times we're talking about, Hey, you're a CliftonStrengths practitioner, that sort of thing. And that could be internal in a company that could be a coach who does this full time. And there are a lot of listeners who are either independent coaches, or trainers, or they're doing it at a company internally, they're doing something else, and they want to start a business like the one we have. And And we know they exist and they're all over the place because we typically get one to five of these people hanging out after every workshop saying, how do I live this life? How do I do this thing that you do? This is so cool. So how valuable would it be to work on your business from the beginning? I'm thinking of that person who is starting up a side hustle. They're interested in this and they've never done a business planning retreat. They've never worked on their business in a way that they take a day off. and they really figure out what they want their lifestyle to be, what they have as a profitable business model, you know? Have they even tested out their idea for their product and their messaging? Do they feel solid on it? And I love this episode for the corporates who are going to leave someday out on their own, or the coaches who are already on their own, independent, and they just have a tough time taking off a full day or a big chunk of a day to work on their business strategically. So what is it for you? Tell me about the why. Why do you do this on regular intervals?

    Brea: 

    Yeah, well, because I have to for my sanity, you know, because I've seen how beneficial it is. I've experienced being an entrepreneur without it. and running a business from that place of reacting, you know, as leads come in or as opportunities arise or don't arise, you know, then all of a sudden you're like, oh crap, I have nothing on the calendar. And then any sales conversation you're in is from a place of desperation. So if you can make sure that you're setting yourself up for success by giving yourself that intentional time to find who do I really want to work with, right? Who's the customer that I really want to serve and how do I want to serve them? That takes time, you know, and shaping your business is, I think one of the greatest things about being an entrepreneur is that we get to choose. And I've seen in myself and I've seen in coaches that I've coached, when we don't take that step back and do that intentional planning, how working for yourself can feel just like working for the man, you know? The place that you left, the stress that you were trying to get away from, it just actually becomes more, you know, if you don't take the time to put the thought and the planning in. 

    Lisa: 

    Yeah, you just got yourself a bad boss and it's you!

    Brea: 

    It's you! I know, I know.

    Lisa: 

    Yeah, I love this also for stopping the squirrel. So you know, people are like, oh, squirrel, squirrel. We are like this quite often as coaches, as trainers, as course creators, as speakers. we get a lead on a thing and someone is like, Oh, okay, what's next? What about this? Do you have any content on this? Do you have any content on that? Do you have any content on this? And sometimes strategically, it is a great idea to do it. And other times, it ends up taking you a month of work to create a new program, roll it out to their people, and maybe you're doing it one or two times. And when you sit back and look at whether there was a return on that effort, yes, can you reuse it? Can you resell it? Will you? Those are all strategic decisions you could make up front. But I've seen a lot of coaches get really distracted by the squirrel opportunity, the potential squirrel opportunity, and also the kind of squirrel thoughts on learning, like, oh, this is cool. Oh, I should be doing AI. Oh, I should be doing more on this element. Oh, I should make some content over here. Oh, I like learning on this topic. So I'm going to go take some more training. Instead of really focusing on one big thing for that year in front of you or that quarter in front of you. So I love having a business planning retreat. or a business planning day to work on your business and get your brain reset and get it really focused on what is the one big thing you're working on right now so that you can keep filtering your decisions through that? Like, is this a good use of my time? Should I be, even though there are a lot of fun things we could do, are they going to make money? Are they taking the business in the direction I want it to go in? It gives you the moment to get a big breath and assess.

    Brea: 

    So I love this and I hate this at the exact same time. Well, here's the thing is because it's so true. So if you're listening to Lisa and feeling like me on the inside, like I don't want to just do one thing. I don't want to focus on, you know, I don't want to create something and then rinse and repeat. I don't want to, right? Like, I've been there, I am there every day, and that is not, almost always, not the way to profitability, not the way to ease. But if you have high individualization like I do, and like I know you do, Lisa, so I want to hear how you balance that. But my individualization was killing me in the way that you're describing, where if anyone said, do you have content on this? I'm like, sure. Do I? No. But can I make it? Yes. Will I? Yes. And all of a sudden, all my talents are engaged. I'm like, yes, I get to do this for this person or this company. But like you said, it takes so much time, right? So for me, I have to honor my talents. And what I've learned is that when someone comes and they ask for that custom solution that I don't have, I have to charge for it. Like this is a premium offering. These are my talents. giving them something that has never existed before ever. This is not an out-of-the-box solution. If what they want is an off-the-shelf, out-of-the-box, you know, press play and go, like, they can get that anywhere. If they want something that is customized to them, to their values that they have hanging on the wall. If we want to learn how to use the strengths of their team and the strengths of the individuals on their team to live these values at work in their interactions with their customers every day, then they're going to pay for that. And I'm happy to create it. But it's it's not pennies on the dollar like I was doing, you know, before.

    Lisa: 

    Yeah. I definitely agree that individualization can create a monkey wrench in this way. It definitely does for me. Similarly, I love customization. It's a thing with individualization. I started off trying to solve that problem with tailoring fees. I would be like, okay, if it's a really customized thing, there would be a tailoring fee and make sure that they know it's super premium. I found over time that what really worked out better for both of us was, Look, I have a standard deck for a half-day program and a full-day program, if we're talking CliftonStrengths. And I have a handful of exercises in there. Say there are 5 exercises. that if I just get a little bit of information from them on their values, the programs they're implementing right now, a couple of hot-button topics, what challenges are going on, I can integrate those into the exercises as examples. I could change in literally 15 minutes. I can change some words on the screen to customize the exercise, and then they're having whole conversations on things that matter to their team, and it feels very customized. So I got really good over time at making it feel like customization to both of us, to them and to me, but very minimal time because I standardized what I was customizing. And then I also, if I take Maximizer and Strategic and I said, all right, now if I am going to do mega customization, I'm going to make sure that if I do it, they're going to pay a mega premium or they're going to offer at least six of these programs so that if it's in volume, it makes it worth it doing it. And I can offer it to other. clients. So is it something that could then become a standard program? And then I could go out and sell that. So strategically, I'm looking at that would be one of that would be a great topic that you could come with in a business planning retreat. Like, here's how I'm getting myself in trouble. Here's where I'm finding a time suck, even though I love how that time is going by. It's not a profitable use of my time. So then how can I get rested and rejuvenated in a day away while I'm simultaneously working on the strategy of my business, the direction of my business, the most profitable decisions. And it's just like any tough decision in your life. If you make these decisions in advance before the situation comes up. you can handle it in a way that you're proud of. And it's easier for you to make the decision you need to make. Because I'll tell you, like relationship wise, and in a great conversation with a prospect, I've been swept up in the moment where I'm like, yes, this sounds great. And then I make them feel like I'm totally going to do that customization thing. But if I had decided in advance, here's what customization means to us. and be able to explain it. Because I already came up with that strategically in my business planning retreat day. It feels great. I know how to present it to them so that it feels great to them. I know how to present it to me so it feels great to me. And I didn't get swept up in the moment and get excited and then promise something that takes my business off course for a whole quarter or two, which could really tank your revenue for the year.

    Brea: 

    Totally.

    Lisa: 

    Because something sounded fun. And look, if we have our own businesses and coaching and training, for most of us, all this stuff is fun. It's just what is the most fun? And or of the fun things, what are the most profitable decisions? And if they're not fun or profitable for you, you know, we have dozens of amazing coaches we can refer it out to because we're all so different in what we want to do. And we could pass that work along to one of our colleagues. And then that kind of good vibe comes back to us, but it feels so good to be solid in your decisions because you took a business planning day to really be working on your business and what you want out of it. Big picture.

    Brea: 

    Totally. Yes. I wish that people could see, like, I'm just nodding up and down because, you know, Brea from seven years ago, you know, I wish I had known these things then, you know, I wish I had seen how, how much of a difference it makes and what that looks like. Because otherwise it's not only confusing for you as the entrepreneur, but it's confusing for your client. No, if someone comes to you and says, Hey, what, what's it like to work with you, Bria? And I say, well, I can do whatever you want. What do you need? They might say, who is this girl? No one can do everything. Like, you know, she's just hungry for a sale. Or they say, well, I don't know. That's why I'm asking you. What does it look like to work with you?

    Lisa: 

    I want you to consult me. Oh, I have an example of my very favorite outcome from a business planning retreat. I decided to work on my business and get really focused and make some scary choices. Because I think what we're talking about here is making scary choices because it feels like if you're saying no to business that is sort of in your realm, are you being foolish? Are you turning away business that you should have taken? What if you don't get any more this year? There are all kinds of things that come up in people's minds. So I had something similar coming up. This was a few years into my business. I was doing a lot of virtual training for very large companies who at the time were saying, no vendors like doing virtual training. None of our vendors want to. We just make them put it in the lineup. And I was like, Pick me, pick me. I love virtual training. Now, of course, post-COVID life, everyone's used to it now. It's not a big deal now. But at the time, it was a very rare specialty.

    Brea: 

    So rare. And you were crushing it. I mean, you were like the girl to go to for that. Yeah.

    Lisa: 

    How cool to have you come back and say that because you know how scared I was to put it on the website, like that we specialized in that. I came up with all these stories about how. Look, my whole business was based on all of these in-person workshops. If I put it out there that we specialize in virtual, I'm going to lose my whole business. What am I doing? And so I needed that day to work on my business, to decide what my strategy is, to come up with a revenue model for it. That makes sense. to make sure I understood how I was going to generate business, attract clients, feel solid that I had a model with an addressable market, and all of that sort of stuff, and feel comfortable putting it out there. And the funny thing is, there's no reason why, if you lead with a specialty, like at the time when I put virtual training on the website as the core thing we did, It didn't mean that I would never offer an in-person workshop again. It didn't mean we would say no to all those things forever. But it was really clear what our main thing was. But I was so scared to make that change. I thought it would tank the business. And in fact, it did the opposite. And I think we have a lot of those kind of things happen where we need these business planning retreat days to, to take care of ourselves and our minds and direct our minds because they can make up all the stories about how terrible our decisions are. But if we sit back and say, okay, look, I've mapped this whole thing out. I've thought about what I want. I thought about the life I want to live. So now I've got a lifestyle that I feel good about for my business. And then I've run it against a profitability model. Do I actually have a business model and customers that make sense? And now what's the strategy to implement it? But if you don't step back, take the time to assess it, ask yourself, if those narratives you're talking about are really true or not. You don't know. So I like that example. I wanted to bring that up because those are the kind of problems you can solve in these days where you're working on your business, that if you're just going about the daily motions, you would never say, This is my core focus. I'm saying focus on that, back to that idea of focus on one big thing. It didn't mean I didn't do anything else in the business. I still did one-on-one coaching. I still did in-person. But I had a totally different strategy for how I would bring the business in, how those leads would be handled versus the other ones. It just changes the details of the operations for how you handle it. And if you don't take time out for yourself to think through it, you just keep going through the motions and it never happens and you never design the lifestyle you set out to do when you started your business.

    Brea: 

    That's right. And what a shame, you know, because the entrepreneurial life is not for the weary, not for the faint of heart. There's so much good that comes from making these sacrifices, but there are many sacrifices, you know, that are made. So if you're not getting the outcomes that you want, then why are you doing this, you know? Yes. You're making me think about how, one of the things that surprises me when I work with coaches, coaches tell me all the time that they struggle to know where their profit is coming from. Look at where your revenue is coming from. What is the most profitable offering that you're offering? If you don't know that, then you have to step aside and take some time to work on your business. Because as strengths coaches, we want to focus on what is working. We know that when we invest in what's already strong and what's already working, that's the best way to get more of what what is good and what is working. So do that with your offerings. Do that with your revenue. Do that with, yes, your personal energy, you know, what's fun for you, what you enjoy doing, but also look very practically at what are people buying? and then decide, do I want to keep, you know, is that sustainable for me? Is that fun for me? Do I want to keep offering that? And do I want to double down? Or, you know, like, like Lisa was just describing, you know, maybe in person was the majority of your revenue, but it was It was not fun for you. It was draining you. It was not sustainable for you. So you made a scary switch. That's fine. But you have to at least know what the heck is going on in your business right now. You know?

    Lisa: 

    Yeah, I agree. Because if I did a surface level assessment, I would have said I love in-person events because I do once I'm there. But I didn't like being away from home all the time. I didn't like the airplane travel there. And so there are these other elements involved that if you're not retreating and getting that restful state for your mind and that dreamy state for your mind about what you want, you're not going to come up with those deeper realities about the thing. You might just be like, Oh, yes, I love being in front of a crowd. Okay, great. But that is not all that is involved. Totally. So if someone wants to work with you on one of these days, let's talk about that. What kind of things could they expect?

    Brea: 

    So if we worked together on a retreat day where we retreat from the everyday operations, we change our patterns, we change our location, we change our mindset, we create extra space to dream. What could that look like? Well, I think it's going to be most successful if you come in with a very specific outcome that you're desiring. Maybe that's coming up with a new offering. Maybe that's trying to figure out how to stay profitable. and stay home instead of traveling all the time. Whatever problem you're feeling or whatever tension you want to solve, let's do that. Or if you say, gosh, I've got this offering and I love it and I want to get more of it, let's bring it into the retreat and let's figure out how we can really blow it up. Or if you're just saying, you know, I've been at this for two or three years and I feel like I've got a good business, but it's not in alignment with my strengths. You know, how many strengths coaches are out there that are not operating from their own strengths? Let's figure out how to align who you are, how you work at your best. with what you're actually offering and how you are running your business. So, I mean, I could offer my story brand marketing. My goal is to show up and make sure that we continue to shine a spotlight on your talents and lead from your strengths so that when you come out at the end of the day or at the end of your time working on your business, you have a business that empowers you to live the life that you are empowering others to do.

    Lisa: 

    Beautiful. Oh, I think so many coaches don't know that you're StoryBrand certified and how important that could be to be able to get messaging and from somebody who leads through communication and cares about words at a level that is It's pretty epic. I've heard it in our conversations on and off the podcast. Like you really care about words and that translates for messaging when someone is working on their business. So get on over to briaroper.com slash VIP. Is that the right link? Let's make sure I got it right.

    Brea: 

    You got it. That's perfect. Thank you so much, Lisa. Yeah. And leadthroughstrengths.com slash VIP. What will they find when they go there?

    Lisa: 

    They will, well, when they go there, literally, they'll just find the opportunity to book one of these personal business planning retreat days. And the people I think this would be really good for, for me, would be if you are starting up a side hustle, you're in corporate right now, and you are making that decision. How do I decide when to go full time? How do I build all the systems and structures and marketing and sales and operations and things to feel really comfortable and solid? Or if you've just dreamt of starting a business and you want to map this all out? Like, what is my strategy? What is a profitable business model? What do I love and want to do, and somebody else wants to buy it? The other audience, like you mentioned, people who are several years into it, but they've found they have gotten away from the lifestyle they meant to create. Or they never created a profitable business model. They just did what they loved. And then they're like, oops, this isn't profitable. I just like it. So any of those kind of problems or places where you need to do decision making, and a little bit of that dreaming and decision making together to map out a strategy, it'd be a great way to spend a day. And as Brea has said many times, this idea of restfulness and rejuvenation, even though it's hard work to do one of these days, there's also a restful, rejuvenating vibe because your brain has space. It's not task, task, task in those days. It is thinking. time, there is space and pause, and it's a really different cadence than many of us are used to when we're in a grind mode. So I think if you're ready to stop being heads down all the time, come to leadthroughstrengths.com slash VIP.

    Brea: 

    I love it. Lisa, you are so good. I mean, your story is exactly that, right? You were crushing it in corporate, but it was crushing you and you were like, there's a different way. So here you go, right? You put your plan together and then you started your own business and you worked your plan and now you're just crushing life, you know, without losing your mind. Like that's the ultimate success story, I think. You are an excellent authority for anyone who is in that same situation right now. I mean, Lisa is such a great guide for you, so please reach out to her. My story was very different. I did not ever have a corporate experience. did not have any kind of planning. You know, I crowdfunded $10,000 to pay for my certification. And that was my business planning was, you know, people pledged in exchange for coaching. So I left the certification with 100 people. on the books, scheduled, ready to start coaching. I coached 60 people. I'm sorry, 100 people in 60 days. And I built this thing, you know, from the ground up just on the fly. So it can be done both ways. But definitely if I had known earlier the benefits of having a little bit of runway built ahead of you. I know that that would have helped me get a lot further a lot faster. So no matter where you're starting from, please just make the time, invest the time, take the time. It's never going to just be there for you. You're not going to wake up one day and just say, oh, huh, I have a day to work on my business. Cool.

    Lisa: 

    That's right. Yes. Working on your business like this, this is working on your life. This is an investment in your life that you are choosing to live. Thank you for saying that. That is so big.

    Brea: 

    Yeah, yeah. So wherever you are now, the best is yet to come and you will go further faster if you just take a pause. It's like those little toy cars that you have to pull back and then release it and then it just like shoots forward really fast. That's what this day is. It's time to just pull back.

    Lisa: 

    Marco Pico train.

    Brea: 

    Like what?

    Lisa: 

    Hillbilly references, you're gonna have to look up. See, I know we both are not great on pop culture, but I've got the hillbilly 1980s down pat.

    Brea: 

    Oh my gosh, that is so funny.

    Lisa: 

    It's a scavenger hunt. Let's see if people can come back in. Actually, I said it wrong. Anyway, it's Roscoe Pico train, I think, not Rocco.

    Brea: 

    Okay, Roscoe Pico Train.

    Lisa: 

    Roscoe Pico Train. Okay, so that's the scavenger hunt for people to come back in social media and tell you who Roscoe Pico Train was and get you, because it just, I'm playing on your car metaphor here. You just had no idea that it was all in support of the visual that you gave us.

    Brea: 

    Love it.

    Lisa: 

    So there you go. Yep. Now the listeners have to support you. I'm not going to give you the answer. It'll be fun.

    Brea: 

    Okay. I love it. I love it. Oh, that's so good. Well, I feel like we could talk about this forever because it's just so important. It's not even the right word. It's foundational. It's essential. It's necessary. If you don't do it, you will feel it and not in a good way. And if you do, oh my gosh, like you will feel the benefits of being just more in alignment finding more ease, more energy, more joy in your everyday work, and more profit, more success, you know? Yes, yes.

    Lisa: 

    And I think that these business planning retreats, I mean sometimes people of course go to in-person retreats to work on business. But if you're doing it, and you're like, hey, I love to work with Brea or Lisa, and I can't go to Kansas City, or I can't go to Austin, Texas, or to Colorado, we'll do it virtual, we'll create relaxing vibes, we'll recreate those kind of feels as much as possible, because you can still find a park where you have Wi-Fi, you can go outside, you could go get a hotel for the day and do a staycation, you could, you can do a lot of things to mix up your workspace, even if you're in a different spot in your house, or you just sit on the patio that day instead of indoors. I think you can get a lot of those kind of feels as long as you're breaking your patterns.

    Brea: 

    Yep. Yep, and I love to travel and I'm very happy to travel to you or to your nearest beach in Mexico if that sounds fun for you. But maybe people don't know that Tour Guide Barbie is actually my middle name and I love to create experiences. So, yeah, Kansas City, Nashville, Denver, or, you know, wherever you are, let's do it. You know, we'll make it fun. We'll make it a little yummy, a little special, and It really is just what you do for everyone every day. It's just holding space so that you can have that focused attention that intention to Set yourself up for success just like you do for your clients every day 

    Lisa:

    Beautiful. Mic drop right there.

    Brea:

    Boom, baby. All right, everybody, BreaRoper.com/VIP or LeadThroughStrengths.com/VIP. Go book it now. Just do it. We'll see you there. Just do it. Adios.

    Lisa: 

    We'll be there with our tiki torches waiting for you.

    Brea: 

    Party.

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out team workshops and retreats at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the Get Coached link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

Ep. 164 - Goal Setting With Strengths

Goal setting. Does setting and getting goals light you up and get you groovin? Or maybe you’re not a big fan. Either way, this episode focuses on how to set yourself up for success – by using your Strengths, of course!

We believe that when you approach goal setting through the lens of your individual talents, it not only makes the process more enjoyable but also opens up a whole new realm of possibilities that you might not have considered before.

Tune in for personal anecdotes and insights about how leveraging your strengths can transform your goals from mundane tasks into inspiring challenges. We discuss the importance of having a solid action plan and the value of check-ins to keep you on track. Plus, we emphasize that even if a goal feels outside your natural strengths, you can still use your unique talents to achieve it. So, whether you're looking to set a Big Hairy Audacious Goal or just want to make your bed every day (no judgment here!), this episode is packed with tips and strategies to help you set it and get it!

🌟

    1. Strengths-based goals set you up for success: Setting goals through the lens of your unique strengths can lead to more meaningful and attainable objectives. By focusing on what energizes and excites you, you can create goals that feel natural and motivating.

    2. Think beyond SMART Goals: While SMART goals are a great starting point, it's essential to think outside the box. Incorporating your strengths into the goal-setting process can help you identify opportunities and areas for growth that traditional methods might overlook.

    3. Strength doesn’t happen by accident. Strength, or as Gallup defines it, “consistent, near-perfect performance” doesn’t happen by accident. To achieve the best outcome,use your talents to bring intention and clear direction to your goals.

    • Explore Your Strengths: Take time to identify your unique strengths and consider how they can inform your goal-setting process. Reflect on what comes naturally to you and what you enjoy.

    • Create an Action Plan: Simply setting a goal isn't enough; you need a step-by-step action plan to achieve it. Without a clear strategy, it's easy to lose focus and get sidetracked. Consider using tools (like sticky notes or vision boards) that align with your strengths to keep you organized and motivated.

    • Set Goals for Talent Development: Consider setting goals that focus on developing your talents further. This can lead to new opportunities and enhance your overall performance.

    • Use Accountability: Find an accountability partner or coach to help you stay focused on your goals. Regular check-ins can help you assess your progress and make necessary adjustments.

  • Lisa:

    Hey, I'm Lisa.

    Brea:

    And I'm Brea.

    Lisa: 

    And today's episode is all about goal setting.

    Brea:

    Oh my gosh, we came in with giggles because I was like stretching and groaning like an old person as I was getting ready for the record button to go. So funny.

    Lisa:

    It would be great if one of those kind of noises, I guess, included, you know? Yes, I love letting them in. And my back cracking as I'm like crouching in my chair. We'll have to overdub some back cracks. Oh my gosh.

    Lisa:

    Hi, everybody. Yeah. Hey, everyone. And a double hello to Ricardo. I want to give him a shout out. He has been a listener, oh my gosh, I don't know how long, for eight years, nine years. He's been a listener forever and has been giving feedback over the years and has just been a great, great listener and strengths peer. So shout out to Ricardo for suggesting the topic of goal setting.

    Brea: 

    Okay, love that. Thank you, Ricardo.

    Lisa: 

    Yes. And I think, Brea, you tell me what you think here. I'm going to say you have to give an obligatory nod to SMART goals because it's the standard everyone talks about. So if you're a listener and you've never heard of SMART goals, it stands for, it's an acronym, it stands for Specific, measurable, achievable, realistic, and time-bound. And yes, those are great standards to make sure your goals are concrete and ready to go and in a form that feels gettable. And with that, I would like to quickly move right off of SMART goals so that we can give you some insights and things to think about that are different from every other goal setting podcast or article you've ever read. What do you think, Brea?

    Brea: 

    Yeah, you know, we're talking about strengths. We're talking about goals through a lens of strengths. So already it's different because, as everyone on this podcast knows, your strengths are as unique to you as Well, there is nothing more unique. They are 100% unique to you, the blend of your talents. So already, just if you are leaning into your strengths when you are approaching goals, it's already going to be unique to you. So let's dive in.

    Lisa: 

    Yes. You know, as you said that what pinged for me was When I'm deciding on my goals, what comes to my mind first is traditional goal setting stuff like, okay, let's think of the workplace and what are some metrics I want to move for the year? What are my revenue goals? I start to think of things like that. And when I think of strengths and add that in, I add things that I never would have thought of otherwise. So for example, I lead through positivity, individualization, woo, I have these need for people kind of themes, and I've worked from home for over 15 years. And what I've realized is if I don't have goals that relate to social things, I start to lose myself a little bit and I just don't realize it's that important for me to be around other humans physically because you can just be heads down in your work and forget. So I think that's an example personally of where goal setting with a lens of strengths, it could even tell me which ones to set that I might overlook entirely that'll be really valuable to me as a human. How about for you?

    Brea: 

    Yeah, totally. Using our strengths to set goals automatically broadens the scope of where you can go and what you can achieve. And it's attainable because it's coming from a place of strength, right? So it feels like, oh, this is a surprise. I've never really thought about setting a goal like this. And at the same time, it feels so doable and so natural and exciting, hopefully, you know, to think about going for that.

    Lisa: 

    Yeah, yeah. And they also give you. different approaches. If I think of mine, strategic's my number one. I love to get a list going of possibilities, and it's quick. But here are things I could focus on for the year. Here are things that might be important. And then I know that if I'm realistic, I can't do 40 top goals. That doesn't make any sense. So I can use strategic to say, what's most important for me? What are my priorities? And boom, I'm picking these two and that's it. And if I need to pivot later, cool, I will. And it allows me to do that. I love that. And I think my maximizer number two, it really drives me to set a goal and a BHAG, you know, the Big Hairy Audacious Goal, so that I can challenge the standard and challenge my potential and get a little bit of fun out of having the goal and then having the Big Hairy Goal.

    Brea: 

    Yeah. I love that.

    Lisa: 

    What do you think?

    Brea: 

    Yeah. I, I just, I'm thinking about, well, I'm thinking about why, why is setting goals so important and also why do so many people not do it? And also for those of us that do do it, like, why is it so hard? to finish. And I wonder if part of that is just because we are setting the wrong goals. Like you said, if we think about this through the lens of our strengths, we're able to set goals that can help set us up for success versus, you know, younger Brea would set goals to make my bed every day. And I just am not an everyday bedmaker and I've wasted so much time going after that goal, but it's just not a goal that's worth my effort. So I think this idea of setting goals through the lens of your strengths is so important because it helps you choose the right goals. And then the big hairy audacious, um, what's the G in beehive? Oh, Oh my gosh, I crack myself up. Okay, as soon as I said it, it was like right there.

    Lisa:

    It's like pin number, personal identification. What's the N? Oh my gosh. It's a pin number. It's a BHAG goal. I think it's the same situation. So you're off the hook.

    Brea:

    Yeah, that's so funny. So the BHA goal is, I forgot what I was saying. I don't even remember.

    Lisa: 

    I've got to jump on the insight then while your brain can bring it back to you. I think what you said, it felt like a metaphor that happens in the workplace all the time. So at year end, especially, but it happens at all different times of the year when people have to do their individual development plan for the year. And it's required that they set goals. Of course, sometimes you have assigned goals where it's like, here's your goal. Go figure out how to meet it. And you can do that through strengths really well as well. But there's this opening on these IDPs, the individual development plans, for so many people because you're supposed to come up with a few of your own development goals. And what do people do? They come up with goals that they think someone else wants to see. And what I just heard you saying, it reminded me of this same situation. Maybe they're making Make your bed goals. They've tried it and it was a meh goal. Well, those aren't fun to achieve. Those don't motivate you and pull out your potential. And if you use your strengths as a filter, they're going to be fun, or at least more fun. They're going to inspire something in you. There's going to be a spark. And if you just set your goals the way you think someone else believes you should, well, of course, they might not be that motivating for you. They might not sound that exciting. So I think strengths as a lens of goal settings, oh, it's so smart because all that stuff we talk about with the ease, ease, energy, enjoyment, excellence. If you set your goals aligned with strengths, it's going to bring all of those things out in you.

    Brea: 

    Totally. Yeah, I 100% agree. I've been that person. I think most, if not all, of our listeners have been there, so totally that resonates. Yeah, the BHAG doesn't seem so big, hairy, and audacious if it's aligned with your strengths. Because what feels big to us or hairy to us or audacious to us are often the goals that are not in alignment with our strengths, right? Because like you just said, if we're setting goals that are in alignment with our strengths, then it feels easy. It feels energizing. It feels like excellence is attainable, right? We're excited for it. We enjoy it. That does not feel like big hairy audacious, right?

    Lisa: 

    I think, okay, so big, yes. Audacious, yes. Hairy, maybe not. But I would think like be careful with what kind of audacious, what kind of big, what kind of hairy. What a funny conversation. But I would say, okay, let's do an example. If I say, I want to double my number of members in Tools for Coaches. That sounds possible. But I could set an audacious goal to triple it. And is it possible? Yeah, I think it's possible. And I like the stretch in the brain on something that sounds really exciting for me, something that is strengths aligned if I allow it to be. and I do it in a way that is of service to the members and in alignment with my strengths at the same time, then the audacious part of it feels amazing. So instead of audacious being outlandish, it would be audacious because it's like, ooh, this is just a little possibility that I'm seeding in my mind so that I can start marinating on how I could actually pull that off.

    Brea: 

    Yeah, and I think when we use our strengths, we can do that, right? The big hairy audacious becomes possible.

    Lisa: 

    What about accomplishing goals? Let's say it's a goal. Now it's set. You've done your SMART goals, you've picked a BHAG or a stretch or whatever version of it, and you've done it. with your strengths in mind. It feels aligned with you, with you as a person. So your goals are set.

    Brea: 

    And now you got to go get them.

    Lisa: 

    You got to go get it. Brea's got the ultimate rhyme. Set it and get it. So now we're on the get it phase. How do you use your strengths? What does that even look like if you're using your strengths to accomplish what's already set?

    Brea: 

    Yeah. So we've talked about how setting the right goal is setting yourself up for success. But then you got to go get it. And you can't just like set the goal and say, okay, cool, and then have no plan. And I think that's the second place that people fall down is that they don't have a step-by-step action plan of how they're actually going to get there. So it's kind of like Babe Ruth steps up to the plate and he points to where he's going to just crush this Homer But if I did that, the ball would not go where my finger is pointing, you know what I mean? Like, I have no plan, I have no practice. That's where I think a lot of us fail in our goal getting is there's no strategy, there's no plan, there's no step-by-step. So gotta give yourself some direction.

    Lisa: 

    Direction, intention, you know, which you also brought out for me is the difference that in the same thing, let's say the same, goal, I'm going to use this in quotes, because you might not do goal setting. If you were Babe Ruth, you're not like I am goal setting to hit the ball over there in that moment. But if it were you, you would have to because of all the things that would have to come to lead up to it. So the relative part of this is cool because we're one person's task is another person's goal. And the account like just thinking back to some recent coaching conversations, I had one recently where person manages her goals and tasks with sticky notes really masterfully. And I think that's kind of neat to see. Yeah. And if you imagine adaptability, arranger, those kind of things, or someone has all the stuff and Achiever was on board. All the things that you have to accomplish, they can get scratched off and thrown out. They can get pushed over to another category on the side. They can be stacked. If there's a project involved, the next action is the one that's on top. I was getting the whole visual of this thinking, this sounds so beautiful and strength aligned. And the next person who leads through futuristic and strategic and positivity, maybe they love vision boards to get them started, and then they turn that into concrete action. And maybe the next person who leads through competition and analytical, they're all about the metrics and understanding where they came from last year, where they're headed to this year, what the industry standard is, how they're going to nail it, how they need to break it down by month. And all those different examples, those are really different paths to possibly hitting the same exact goal. It's using your strengths to find the approach that is fun to you because your strengths are aligned.

    Brea: 

    Yeah, that's so good. Yeah. I think something you're bringing up is, um, guardrails or just like check-ins, you know, depending on the goal, depending on the length of the project or, you know, the timeline that you have, you might need to have little milestone goals, right? You might need to put in some check-ins to say, let's look at the data. How are we doing? Are we making progress? Because that's the worst is if you set a goal and you start running after it, and then. you know, squirrel and you get distracted, something comes up and all of a sudden you're off on another tangent. So if you can't be that person for yourself, if you can't set those, those boundaries or those guardrails for yourself, then maybe it's finding an accountability coach, or maybe it's taking advantage of weekly check-ins with your manager or whatever it might be.

    Lisa: 

    Yeah, I like that. How do I know what else needs to happen to keep me on target or to check in? Whether, like you said, whether that's accountability partners or using, for example, using some relationship themes to reach out to people who have been in that industry longer than you so that you could get some data points outside of the ones you know, but you could do that through relationships. You could sit back and do some reflection and thinking or research with your thinking themes. Just go through the domains. I just went through two of them, but you can go through and think about different ways to approach it based on the domains you're dominant in.

    Brea: 

    Yeah, this is so important. If you're given a goal, okay, bring your strengths. How can I use my talents to accomplish the goal that has been set before me? Even if it's not, let's say, most naturally aligned. Maybe it's an execution goal and executing is your lowest domain. Okay, that's fine. You can still get there using your strengths. We can also set goals to actually develop your talent. What a great use of time, energy, resources. You know, the definition that Gallup gives us for strength is consistent, near-perfect performance. That does not happen by accident, okay? So you need to be intentional. So let's set some goals to develop our talent and build strength, create new strengths, and go out there and just crush life, you know?

    Lisa: 

    Yes, I'm loving what you just brought up. And it made me think of this example of a person in a workshop a couple of years ago. She led through connectedness. She told me she had been squashing it down at work and that that was more of her personal strength with friends, family, social, etc. But she kind of put it in a drawer for work because she had the sense that it wasn't hard driving and logical enough. and didn't think it was useful at work. So she set a goal, to your point, to develop connectedness and see what it looks like at work. And pretty soon she's realizing, oh, this is how I build rapport. Oh, my kindness takes the edge off when I really need to push hard. Oh, connectedness, it helps me see downstream effects that others don't see. It helps me see how our work is connected to the end user. She came up with 20 things that it was valuable for as she got into it. Yeah, and she did it because she set the intention to work on one that she had been totally shutting off in the workplace.

    Brea: 

    Yeah, and I think that's a great example of, and I hear it from clients too, this is a great exercise to help you get to the goal setting process. Just start looking at your strengths, start looking at what is easy for you, what's natural for you, what you enjoy, and dreaming about how you can grow that. how you might be able to bring that to a place or a person or a task that you normally don't. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh wow, look at all these opportunities, right? And then you can set goals to help you get there.

    Lisa: 

    Beautiful. Inspired action. 

    Brea: 

    Ooh, love. Hello. 

    Lisa: 

    Oh, I got snaps. 

    Brea: 

    Love it.

    Lisa: 

    Okay, we got snaps, but we also need to tell people how to work with us because what if they want our help in exploring their goals? So, Brea, tell them. If they want some goal-setting work with their strengths and they want Brea Roper in the house, how do they find you?

    Brea: 

    Well, if you are ready to go for your own snaps, then come to my website, brearoper.com. Set up a call. We'll figure out if we're a good fit to work together. How about you, Lisa?

    Lisa: 

    Come to leadthroughstrengths.com/getcoached and we can do a one-off session on goal setting or any topic you have on your mind.

    Brea: 

    Love it. Don't forget to use your strengths to set it and get it. 

    Lisa: 

    Set it and get it. 

    Brea: 

    But don't forget it. 

    Lisa: 

    Yes. Don't forget it. 

    Brea: 

    Don't forget your strengths when you're setting and getting goals.

“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
— Love, Brea

MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS

BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness

If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! 

LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo

To work with Lisa, check out team workshops and retreats at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the Get Coached link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our Tools for Coaches membership.

The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.

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