🎧 In today's episode, we dive into the juicy topic of being a "bad boss" to ourselves as entrepreneurs. Isn’t it funny how some of the very behaviors that made us decide to stop working for a bad boss, are often some of the same behaviors we do to ourselves. Things like overworking, neglecting self-care, not setting boundaries, working unreasonable hours, and more. Together, we explore how these bad boss behaviors can lead to burnout and resentment.
So, if you’re ready to stop being a bad boss to yourself and start thriving in your entrepreneurial journey, this episode is packed with insights and encouragement just for you! 🌟
💬 p.s. - What did we miss? What would you add? Share your experiences in the comments below!
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The Importance of Boundaries
One of the biggest traps we fall into as entrepreneurs is the lack of boundaries. Whether it's working unreasonable hours or failing to take time off, we often push ourselves to the limit. In the episode, we discuss how setting clear boundaries (like blocking off time for personal commitments or vacations) can actually enhance our productivity and well-being. Remember, it's not just about working hard, it's about working smart and honoring your own needs.Understanding Your Value
Many of us struggle with pricing our services appropriately, often undercharging out of fear that clients won't pay for what we offer. We emphasize the importance of recognizing your worth and understanding the market value of your skills. By doing your research and setting fair prices, you not only protect your profits but also prevent burnout and resentment. Don’t be afraid to charge what you’re worth!The Power of Community
Navigating the entrepreneurial landscape can be daunting, but you don’t have to do it alone. We highlight the significance of surrounding yourself with a supportive community. Whether it’s through mentorship, networking, or joining groups like Tools for Coaches, having a network can provide you with insights, accountability, and encouragement. Sharing experiences and learning from others can help you avoid common pitfalls and thrive in your business.
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Set Boundaries for Work Hours: Establish clear boundaries around your work hours to prevent burnout. Consider blocking off specific times for work, personal activities, and rest to maintain a healthy work-life balance.
Implement a PTO Policy: Schedule regular time off by blocking out vacation weeks in advance. Aim for at least one week per quarter to ensure you take breaks and recharge, even if you don’t have immediate plans.
Time Block for Tasks: Create a structured schedule by time blocking for different types of work (e.g., emails, client calls, instructional design). This will help you manage your time effectively and ensure you allocate enough time for all necessary tasks.
Evaluate Pricing Strategies: Reflect on your pricing model to ensure it reflects the value of your services. Research market rates and consider charging more for customized offerings to avoid burnout and resentment.
Seek Community and Mentorship: Surround yourself with a supportive community or mentors who can provide guidance and share their experiences. Engage in discussions about challenges and solutions to avoid common pitfalls in entrepreneurship.
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Lisa:Hi, I'm Lisa.
Brea: I’m Brea
Lisa: And today, oh, this song is on my mind. Do you remember that song? Where it says buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh. Yeah.
Brea: Yes, of course I do. And you did that so well. Do it again.
Lisa: Well, that was me for a lot of years of my coaching, training, speaking business being a bad to the bone, a bad boss to yourself. I am so guilty or was so guilty.
Brea: A bad boss to yourself. Yes. Okay. This is juicy. You know, I love a juicy topic. This is a juicy one.
Lisa: Yeah. Well, let's talk about what brings us into wanting to be entrepreneurs and then how, well, for me, I know I have the stories to tell and the lessons to tell about the things that were turning it into bad boss. So if I start off and say, I didn't have bad bosses in corporate. I had great bosses, great leaders. I had a really good experience. So I didn't have the reference point of saying, I don't want to be this terrible person. And so that's why I'm leaving. I wasn't running from that. I was running toward this dream. Oh, now I've got a Tom Petty song in my head. Running down a dream. OK, no, let's stop. I've got too many songs.
Brea: Chili's, baby, baby, baby back ribs. That's what I have in my head. Now you've got to turn it into bad, bad, bad boss.
Lisa: That's so fun. Anyway, yeah, I was totally running down that dream. It was like freedom. I would see other people doing it and I would think, this is so cool. I could take the work that I'm paying vendors to do. I just saw this vision, like if I could be that vendor, I could have this amazing life doing exactly the work that I love. It will be so inspirational and soul-filling because the work is really cool. I'll have total freedom and flexibility with my time. I can work fewer hours. I think it's going to just be so amazing. So I really set up this dream life vision and then quickly out of fear, now that I have a rear view mirror, I worked myself into not that dream because I was so unreasonable as a boss to myself. So I was a total bad boss to myself. What about you? What attracted you to do your own thing?
Brea: Yeah. A huge part of my story was, I'm not going to say I had bad bosses, but I am going to say There are a lot of people who are elevated into leadership positions because they were really great at their job. at the lower level, you know, for example, maybe they were just a killer salesman. And now all of a sudden, they're a manager of people. And that's not even the same job. And I think we've actually talked about that on the podcast before, and how just bogus that is that we're expecting, you know, great leaders to emerge from people who were showing excellence in something else. And so I have worked for and with people who were not given any training or any support to be a leader and didn't know how to handle me. And I'm a lot. And I think maybe those who are listening with a lot of strong, influencing themes like me, I'm not the cookie cutter, let's do it like it's always been done. Just close your mouth and do the work. I can't work like that. I bring new ideas and question everything. And leaders didn't know what to do with that. And so I really did get into this business, especially strengths to help be a solution, to help leaders learn how to lead the people they have. instead of just trying to put everybody into the same little mold. So a different starting place, but yeah, great conversation. I'm excited to dive in. Okay, nice.
Lisa: And you made me think that our thread is so tied together in that it's like when people get promoted into their incompetence. When I left and went out on my own and didn't know how to be an entrepreneur, I had business acumen. I was promoted into incompetence as far as being able to manage myself and my time and create, run, grow a business. I didn't really get all of it so I had some areas of high incompetence and that's why I was a bad boss to myself.
Brea: Yeah, and maybe this is where we start is, you know, there are very, very few people out there who can do all the things with excellence. We've talked about that a little bit in our BP10 episode, you know, how there are certain talents and certain skills that every business owner needs, and no one person has them all.
Lisa: Yeah, well, let me give a real-life tale of being a bad boss to myself under one category, which would be just unreasonable work hours. And one version of that is I had this business strategy. I worked to work with Fortune 500 talent development teams, leadership development teams. That was all great. Got that. So then, I have clients who have people all over the world, and they want to do sessions and workshops, usually virtual, because that was my specialty, and they would want to break up a session, and we would do them basically on the same day, and here's how it would work. I would have a 9 a.m. session, and that would be with Americas and EMEA, so if you're not from corporate or a place where they do these abbreviations, EMEA is Europe, Middle East, Africa, And then I would do a 9 p.m. session with India, APJ, APJ is Asia Pacific, Japan. So I would be up, prepared, showered, ready to go, sound check, so pretty early days, starting with the 9 a.m. Then I would deliver at 9 p.m., depending on time changes, sometimes it was 10 or 11, or depending on the client. could be a 10 or 11 p.m. start. So I would be finishing up as late as 1 a.m. after having gotten up at 5 a.m. and I would do these repeatedly. It wouldn't just be like an occasional thing. I would do them over and over and that would be these long, long days. And I just thought, I mean, it's the same workshop. We're trying to deliver it on the same day-ish. And I just did it unthinking about the consequence to my body and my sleep and the circadian rhythm and all these things that now later, I realized I really wrecked it, but I didn't know then. I just thought, yeah, I stay up late once in a while. Once a week I do these, big deal. And it was a big deal, but didn't realize I was being such a bad boss to myself with those decisions.
Brea: Yes, totally. It does add up over time, right? It's so funny because for me, it's exactly the opposite. I love a 9 a.m. and a 9 p.m. I often am working late at night. 9 p.m. to midnight is kind of a sweet spot for editing podcasts or emails or some creative things. So I don't mind the unreasonable work hours. But for me, where I fall into the trap is just working all the time, not having boundaries. So one of the things that attracted me to entrepreneurship is this concept of time freedom, you know, being able to just go to a kid's soccer game or a recital or something during the day that I wouldn't be able to if I was in an office 9 to 5 and I had to be there, right? So if I'm working at 9 a.m. and 9 p.m. I have to make sure that I'm taking advantage of the time freedom that I've given myself.
Lisa: It's like the good boss to yourself is taking that time and making them non-work hours. The bad boss to yourself would be go, go, go and just fill the middle with the emails and the mundane and fill it in and then it becomes a, well, more than 12 hour workday. Maybe it became a 16 hour workday, but the difference could be a nap in the middle of the day, the soccer game and all of those things. And you're still spending those same hours awake, but it's what you're doing with them consciously.
Brea: How do you know me so well? You know that I love to nap. I mean, come on, naps are a key part of a long day, you know, is taking a little break, a little siesta. Yes. And to be honest, I don't feel guilty about any of that at all. Unreasonable work hours doesn't resonate with me, but working more hours than ever totally resonates. Whatever your time hangup is, make sure that you're being a good boss to yourself by honoring your own needs, your own talents, and balancing the work with life.
Lisa: Right. Yeah, all of mine are some version of time. Like the next one that I thought of was PTO policy. So if you're an employee somewhere, you have PTO. And when you have PTO, you actually think about booking out vacation time. And I just allowed myself to forget about the concept of PTO. And in the early five years of my business, in the front end, I was so booked out. I would be booked out for nine months. So if anybody wanted to get on my calendar for anything, it would literally be like, well, I have a speech that week, or I have a training that week, I want to be in this city that week, I want to be in another city that week. And if we were going to take a vacation, we'd have to think of it nine months in advance. So that is another area of bad boss to yourself, where on one hand, you think you're being good because I was like, Yeah, I'm booking myself out and I was excited because I could generate enough business to be booked out that far But then the downside was what about my family? What about friends? What about my own breaks? I just didn't have them and one day I was talking to a friend about it Tammy if you're listening shout out she was like Lisa It's so easy. All you have to do is block of one week per quarter. And that's it. Just one week per quarter. Then you give yourself four weeks of time. Worst case, if you don't want the time off or you don't want the vacation, don't take it. But otherwise, take it. And if a client wants to book a speech and it's a really cool opportunity, then just move the week to another week. But if you don't block the time out, you'll never get the time. And it was really cool. I started doing it and it made everything work. Now, I am way on the other side of it now. I take lots of time off. I work three-day work weeks. I have a whole different thing because I've figured out how to be a super cool boss to myself nowadays. But it was terrible. So that was one that I thought, gosh, that would be a really good lesson for someone new who is building momentum to just do that in advance. Even if you don't have any bookings yet and you're new to building a business, just start doing it as a habit. Because what's the worst case of that? Just work during that time if you want to.
Brea: Yeah, I love that. And the other side of that is if it's on the calendar and you've got a trip to Europe planned and it's coming up and you aren't working like that's a little fire under your behind to find some work, get some revenue coming in. It's also interesting, this concept of boundaries, putting a PTO on the calendar, that's a boundary. You're saying, I'm prioritizing this. There's a literal boundary that you're drawing on the calendar to block off the time for that. So if you're listening, think about other boundaries that you need for yourself.
Lisa: I'm curious, how did you know some of the boundaries early on? I don't know how I would know until I made the mistakes. I would do three or four virtual sessions in a day because I was like, oh, this is so efficient. I love being efficient and I only have to do my hair and makeup one time. And then I can take the next day to do more admin stuff. So I would get like adrenaline dump after adrenaline dump. It was not good for my body to do it that way. But I didn't realize until I did it enough to go, Oh, I need some boundaries on how many a day I'll do. And then another one, is I would do about 100 events a year. And if you think about travel events, there's a fly day, there's the event day, and then there's a fly day. So if you do 100 events times three, because it's three days to do an event, that is 300 days. Then you want to add on some vacation days, and then add your 52 weekends in there. Basically, that's every day. So then, when do you do prospect calls? When do you do instructional design? When do you answer emails? Do you just cram it in even more? I did. I was a terrible boss to myself in that way. So I think, like, I'm curious about you and your boundaries. How did you know what your boundaries needed to be before you were ever fully booked?
Brea: I didn't know. I didn't know anything. I didn't even know anything. I mean, I think I've said this on this podcast before. I didn't even know that I wanted to own my own business. I literally just fell into it because I didn't have a job and I just started like, doing what I could to make money. And now here I am nine years later. So that's a bad boss, OK, is not even knowing that you're running a business. Yeah. So I learned as I went and I often learned the hard way, which I think is why I love these episodes on helping other coaches to not make the same mistakes. For me, the boundaries that I've learned I needed were around customization. So a trap that I would fall into and still do, if I'm totally honest, I need to continue to do better, is to not over customize everything. Because I love that. I love it so much. So I learned to set the boundary of charging more for those custom, bespoke, premium experiences, which is helpful. But also, I just have such a big heart for people, and my little individualization will over-customize literally everything if I'm not careful. So setting those boundaries is really important. I think you mentioned earlier working or operating out of fear. That's a general caution when we're looking at how are we a bad boss to ourselves. Oftentimes, being a bad boss comes from being afraid. So you're afraid that the customers won't come, you know, the work won't come. And so you take anything given to you, even if it's something you've never delivered before, you don't know anything about it. And You're like, sure, I can do that. And then you spend way too much time creating something that you only use once and not charging enough for it. So setting boundaries around where I want to spend my time. Not just the time on the calendar saying this is admin time, this is creative time, and this is delivery time, but boundaries around what do I want to offer? And that took time for me to figure out. I don't know that I would know that ahead of time, unless maybe someone else who was in L&D or are something, something adjacent and then became their own boss. Maybe they would have a better idea, but I had no idea.
Lisa: Yeah, I came from that background and I had no idea because I knew how to block out time for instructional design, for a needs assessment. I knew those parts of the work, but then how many minutes I would need to be in QuickBooks, or calling the accountant, or managing a procurement process, or talking to the insurance company. I mean, all of those kind of things that I had an experience before. I did not block time out. And that is how I figured it out eventually. I'm still figuring it out, let's be honest. But I did get a lot closer by time blocking. And I started doing things like, what amount of time a day do I spend on email? OK, about an hour. And sometimes emails create action items. So I've got to leave some space for that. So I started putting, OK, they create about this many action items. So I'm going to put hold customer work. And I'm going to block. a couple hour chunk twice a week, and then I'm going to put one hour a day for email, and then I'm going to put 30 minutes for lunch so I can actually eat. I just tried to look at what the average week had for me that I hadn't really thought of or didn't want to plan for, because planning for design time, that was easy. I would just be like, block one day, and I can get this deck developed. I really just had a good feel for that, whereas these other elements, I didn't have a feel for it. And I didn't want to be in those moments like I wanted to be in a needs assessment or instructional design or making a deck. So I started time blocking. And then I had this massive realization that was whoa, there aren't very many minutes left. If you actually put, you know, if you want to work a regular kind of, say you want to work a nine to five kind of time block, and then you fill all those things in, where, where do you even have time? And then you add in delivery and flying. if you're on the road and that gets really slim and that is where I realized I just had to say no. I was so good at saying yes to things and that's not as fun for me to say no. It still isn't as fun to say no but that is the the magic sauce. And I still struggle with it every day because the more you book and the more you get seen in an industry, the more people ask for things from you. And some of those are really great things. You want to be in a peer relationship. You want to have a media appearance. You want to talk with clients about ideas. You want to do a bunch of things, but you realize you have to say no to a lot or you'll never have time for you and the whole oxygen mask theory comes into play.
Brea: Yep, totally. So the thread, common theme that I'm hearing is this idea of structure. We need structure. Too much structure, maybe, is what I'm hearing from your early days. Or the wrong kind of structure, not knowing how much time to block for certain things. Too much structure might equal no freedom. which is bad boss, right? That's not why we went into business for ourselves. But also the other extreme is no structure. No structure is no freedom as well, because there's wasted time and decision fatigue. So finding that median that works for you. Maybe it's a nine to five workday. Maybe it's a nap in the afternoon and a 9 a.m. and a 9 p.m. But whatever works for you, making sure that there is some kind of structure, some kind of boundary, some kind of sandbox to play in to allow the freedom that you're looking for. It's such a trap to believe that structure constricts or restricts our freedoms. There's so much science that proves when we have at least some boundaries, when we have a sandbox of plan, we can get so much more creative than if we have all the things to do, then we end up doing nothing or we end up just spinning our wheels. going insane.
Lisa: Yeah, constraint can give you the freedom. And it's scary to honor the constraint. But you definitely have the theories that everyone has heard of, like the work expands to the time allowed. So you have simple things like if I give myself three hours to make this deck, will it be any better than the one hour? Well, maybe marginally, but if I said, I'm going to buckle down, I only have one hour to do this, boom, I'm still going to have a good product. And then I get two hours back in my day that I would have spent over maximizing. And then on a bigger picture, if you back into the dreams, when I decided a few years ago to have three-day work weeks, it sounded so impossible. But then I just blocked off Monday and Friday and said, well, what does it have to look like to make it possible? and being able to say things to a client that I was so afraid of. The words, oh, I'm already booked there. Let's look at next week. Those are so easy to say. I don't have to say, oh, I take off Fridays to get a massage. I don't have to say those words. I just have to say, I'm booked already on Friday. Let's look into next week. And it's fine. Everything's fine.
Brea: Yep. And people like to work with winners. So if you are available every minute of every day, what they might see is, wow, like she's not doing anything. She's desperate for work. And they're busy too. They are busy too. This actually just happened yesterday. I got an inquiry from someone that I didn't know. They found me online and went to my website and scheduled a call. So yay, process works, right? Yay, inbound. Yay, inbound. But it wasn't until my next available on my Calendly, which was a few days away. And when her inquiry came in, I happened to be available. And I just texted her and I said, Hey, super excited to meet with you, just wondering if you happen to be free now. And she called me and we talked and it's looking really good. So I think structure is good and it's okay to be flexible in the moment. You know, I gave her that option that said, Hey, if you want to talk now, we can. And she took it and now we're moving forward.
Lisa: And what a cool way, like I just think of that and go, ooh, that could be an example of being a good boss to yourself. And that what if you really had something else in mind for Thursday and you could find cracks in the week. You always talk about the cracks in your day. And then this could be a crack in the week where you're like, ooh, if I filled this one in, I'm going to free myself up to do this other thing on Thursday.
Brea: Totally. And it was it was better for me because my energy was at a high. I had just delivered something really great. I had just had a great coaching call in the morning. So I was like, I was feeling it. I was feeling strengths. I was feeling myself. And that came through in the sales call several times. She said, oh, my gosh, I can just tell how much you love your work. And isn't that what we want? Is that true authenticity? So knowing my own talents, knowing that my energy comes from those wins, I leaned in and I offered to meet with her then because I knew I would be better on the call. She didn't have to say yes, I wasn't forcing her to change the schedule, but she did and that worked out for both of us, you know? So knowing yourself is just really, really important. Yeah. Another thing is also with boundaries and with fear, the trap of charging too little because we're afraid that people won't pay for what we have to offer. Not only does it hurt our profits, but it also leads to so much burnout and maybe even resentment. And that's something that I found really early on. I didn't know what the market would handle as far as pricing went, and I didn't really know what I wanted to value my time for. And so that was something that I had to learn the hard way. But I think if I had put some thought into it, put some research into it, I could have figured that out without years of learning the hard way and struggling with the burnout and the resentment that that brought.
Lisa: Yeah. Oh, that's a really good one because you basically you're being a bad boss to yourself by not thinking of it as a business. If you're thinking of it as you as a freelancer doing hourly rate, you're going to make really different decisions versus how you would price it if you were like, oh, they want to do four pre-event calls, not just one. Oh, they're going to ask me to take my deck and put it into their brand template. oh, they're going to send me through a procurement process that requires 40 hours on the phone with their call center, and they only happen to be available in India time zone, and things that you wouldn't expect because you don't know at the beginning, or maybe you need to hire a team to deliver because the time zones are all over the place, and you have no margin for that if you're building it like an hourly freelancer, not like a business owner. And it's a way that people are often bad bosses to themselves just out of naivete. But like you said, if you have people around you, if you have mentors around you, if you ask the questions, you can really be a good boss to yourself by thinking ahead and surrounding yourself with a community of people who have been there and done that so that you don't walk the same mistakes.
Brea: Yes. Yes, I know you probably want to land the plane. So I'll give my closing thought first. My closing thought is scaling the wrong thing, growing something that you don't enjoy, continuing to offer something that has worked, that has brought in money, but not because you like it or not because you want to continue offering it. Gosh, Doesn't that happen when we're working for someone else? We're given tasks all the time and expectations, and we just kind of have to grumble our way through it. And we do that to ourselves in our own business as well. And you don't have to. You don't have to do that. I talk to so many coaches who ask me, what should I offer? What should my offering be? What should my business model be? What should I? And you are the only one that can answer those questions for yourself. You have to make sure that you're setting things up in a way that you want to go to work every day. You want to sell in casual conversations in the elevator and also informal networking opportunities and in a formal sales call. You have to be excited about what you're doing. Don't keep doing things just because they're bringing in profit. If it's not really lighting you up, then figure out something else. Scale your business another way. You don't have to scale it based on what other people are telling you to do or what's working for other people.
Lisa: Yes, and I'll jump on the theme of scaling and say where I know I went wrong and I was a total bad boss to myself, was not thinking about the scale of labor. And I ate into that with my personal hours as the only solution I really knew how to do at the beginning. And if I had mentors and a community and people who had been there before I went there, I think instead of me just celebrating, Oh, look how much I'm growing. Oh, look how many clients I'm getting, I would have realized, Oh, my gosh, I'm about to step in a big pile of life poo because of how much I'm wearing myself out. So it's actually why, one of the reasons I created Tools for Coaches. So if you're listening, and you've been hearing me talk about the tools and templates inside of Tools for Coaches, there's also a community out there and there's mentorship. And part of the beauty of that group is being able to ask, like, what do you all do to prevent this? Or what do you all do to get in front of that? And that's part of that membership that I run. So leadthroughstrengths.com slash Tools for Coaches, if you want to check that out. It's a great place to catch these problems, like being a bad boss to yourself before you commit them.
Brea: Love it. Yes. And same for me. I mean, having people around me, having community is just essential for my happiness and for my success. So I think that's why I've been really itching to get this podcast community together. I want to talk to you guys about these episodes. If anything is resonating with you, come talk with other podcast listeners. Let's talk about what's working for you, what questions you have, what's not working for you, share that community, and then put it to work. Let's build your business. You know, we had our first meeting this week and it was so awesome. So it's BreaRoper.com/leadthroughstrengths. Can't wait to see you.
Lisa: Boom. No more bad to the bone.
Brea: Now we can get our baby back, baby back, baby back ribs.
Lisa: See y'all next time.
“Remember, hard work doesn’t have to feel hard. Aligned with your strengths, it actually feels easy, energizing, and fun!”
MEET YOUR CO-HOSTS
BREA ROPER
Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness
If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She’s ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you’re looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today!
LISA CUMMINGS
Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo
To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.
The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.